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Another periodic reminder: Whenever you buy a new laptop don't just nuke the Windows install that comes out of the box and go directly to installing Linux, but

Another periodic reminder: Whenever you buy a new laptop don't just nuke the Windows install that comes out of the box and go directly to installing Linux, but boot into it first and let Windows Update install all firmware updates as those updates might not be available under Linux.

davidy123 4y ago
Linux supports firmware updates via fwupd. It's integrated into most distros.
- stncls 4y ago
  Both you and GP are right, depending on the laptop manufacturer. Like you, I personally nuke Windows immediately and run fwupd from Linux... but then... I'm lucky I get to choose my own laptops. And I only buy those whose manufacturers support fwupd. It's a growing number, but I don't think it's a majority...? I'm not sure, I would be happy if anyone had hard data here.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Read my comment again please. Slowly and carefully. Especially this part: >those updates might not be available under Linux Just because FWUPD exists, doesn't mean that FWUPD has updates for all laptops or HW devices in your laptop. All HW manufacturers ship Windows drivers and FW updates for Windows, but not all push their updates to fwupd as well. That's why you should use Windows to update everything first especially if you don't know if your devices are supported by fwupd.
  - trelane 4y ago
    Why would you buy a laptop that you cannot install updates on without jumping though hoops?
    - nordsieck 4y ago
      > Why would you buy a laptop that you cannot install updates on without jumping though hoops? Maybe you're buying used and you can get a great deal that just has that one drawback.
      - trelane 4y ago
        That's fair. Also, not everyone can pay the premiums due to having a much smaller market either, I suppose. Too bad many that can don't. There's no way for the little players to achieve economies of scale of the big players if folks keep buying Windows hardware from the big players.
    - sigzero 4y ago
      No idea but people in fact do that.
    - elteto 4y ago
      Simple, because for running Linux there are not that many options. And the X1 Carbon is very nice hardware. Also, with that mentality, we would never extend Linux support to new hardware.
      - trelane 4y ago
        > And the X1 Carbon is very nice hardware. It doesn't sound as good as a fully supported option. It sounds a lot like commodity Windows hardware. > Also, with that mentality, we would never extend Linux support to new hardware. No, hobbyists will still do it (see e.g. Asahi) If folks keep giving their money to Windows hardware companies instead of Linux ones, they should not be surprised if the range if Linux-supporting hardware remains smaller. Like if you could just slap OSX on some random Windows PC M1 and such would never have come about. We actually have options as Linux users these days. It's a shame folks insist on wasting the opportunity.
      - mijamo 4y ago
        The X1 carbon does have fwupdates on Linux, no need for Windows
dTal 4y ago
I find the pragmatic, if ideologically galling, choice is to leave Windows around permanently, shrinking its partition as small as it will go. This preserves the ability to run any vendor-supplied utilities in perpetuity, as well as leaving the door open to reliably run some Windows software in a life-or-death situation.
- bluedino 4y ago
  I've had Windows 10 run certain (major?) updates that fubar the boot record or something because they ruin my dual-boot Linux install.
  - jhickok 4y ago
    This has been my experience as well.
  - dTal 4y ago
    Automatically, on boot? That's rather naughty. I've never encountered this but I boot into Windows with a frequency approaching "never", and I would certainly never intentionally permit it to install updates. I would be so livid if it wrecked my boot sequence without user interaction.
  - beardbound 4y ago
    If you use the windows boot record as the parent boot instead of grub you can mostly get around this issue. It’s what I did on my gaming rig. I mostly use that as a development machine these days, but occasionally boot into windows for games.
lproven 4y ago
> let Windows Update install all firmware updates I did in fact say that in the article. (I wrote the story at the top of this post.)
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  I know mate, I wasn't trying to steal your thunder. I was happy to finally see someone else cover this important first step of using Windows to get your FW updated so that you ensure smooth Linux experience after install, and wanted to emphasize, from personal experience, how important this step is to having a good linux experience after install.
  - lproven 4y ago
    OK, fair enough. You're right, it is important, and no, people don't talk about it as often as it deserves.
teepo 4y ago
This also holds true for pesky things like displaylink, docs, USB hubs that may need a firmware update to resolve issues with linux. Also I think some Lenovo laptops need an update to Intel ME, which for a long time and depending on your hw was only packaged as a Windows .exe
- dizhn 4y ago
  I used a bootable windows iso thingy the last time this was an issue for me.
  - dizhn 4y ago
    This one: https://archive.org/details/win-7-pe https://archive.org/details/win-7-pe
windexh8er 4y ago
I tell friends to do a bit of digging which includes looking at what's supported but also being keen to support vendors, and the models they sell, that are supported under LVFS [0]. Booting Windows, for anything, if Linux is your daily driver is a PitA. Otherwise there's always Rufus [1] and booting into a DoS environment for firmware updates (if supported) and I believe there's still potentially ways to get "Windows to Go" working still with older Windows versions. [0] https://fwupd.org/ https://fwupd.org/ [1] http://rufus.ie/ http://rufus.ie/
donio 4y ago
Nope, Windows goes during partitioning, I'm not going to boot into that stuff even once. If I bought the laptop it's because I did my research and I am confident that I will be able to fully manage it from Linux.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  I don't get what you were trying to add here besides things that have already bee said. If you did your research and made sure to buy linux supported hardware, then good for you mate, you're free to do whatever you want now, but for us with less linux friendly hardware or unknown to the user, my point still stands, you should first update everything under windows (including usb-c/thunderbolt docking station FW) to ensure a good linux experience later.
- bastard_op 4y ago
  I keep the windoze partition on my thinkpad if nothing else to update the thunderbolt 4 dock firmware, as the TB3 dock just finally got fwupd support within the last few days and no telling if/when the TB4 will. It's an important part of my use, and was and is quite quirky under linux since I got it that has improved with firmware updates. I just resize it down to like 100gb that windoze can keep itself and the lenovo hardware updated when needed with their eazy button app native to their build, and build anything linux after.
- raffraffraff 4y ago
  If I hadn't booted my laptop into Windows (once, to updated the bios), Linux wouldn't have had working audio. And updating the bus from Linux can be a massive pain in the ass, depending on the vendor.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lhl 4y ago
One nice thing about Lenovo's business line is they fully support LVFS for easy firmware updates via Linux. Here's their system updates for the X1 Carbon g10 for example: https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/com.lenovo.ThinkPadN3AETXXW.firmware https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/com.lenovo.ThinkPadN3AETXXW.f... System76 supports LVFS and Framework has started using it for its latest beta firmware updates. (for a full list of vendors: https://fwupd.org/lvfs/vendors/ https://fwupd.org/lvfs/vendors/ )
raffraffraff 4y ago
Oh definitely! This is a top tip!
pizza234 4y ago
An alternative is to create a Windows to Go flash key, and perform periodic updates from there.

davidy123 4y ago

Linux supports firmware updates via fwupd. It's integrated into most distros.

stncls 4y ago
Both you and GP are right, depending on the laptop manufacturer. Like you, I personally nuke Windows immediately and run fwupd from Linux... but then... I'm lucky I get to choose my own laptops. And I only buy those whose manufacturers support fwupd. It's a growing number, but I don't think it's a majority...? I'm not sure, I would be happy if anyone had hard data here.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Read my comment again please. Slowly and carefully. Especially this part: >those updates might not be available under Linux Just because FWUPD exists, doesn't mean that FWUPD has updates for all laptops or HW devices in your laptop. All HW manufacturers ship Windows drivers and FW updates for Windows, but not all push their updates to fwupd as well. That's why you should use Windows to update everything first especially if you don't know if your devices are supported by fwupd.
- trelane 4y ago
  Why would you buy a laptop that you cannot install updates on without jumping though hoops?
  - nordsieck 4y ago
    > Why would you buy a laptop that you cannot install updates on without jumping though hoops? Maybe you're buying used and you can get a great deal that just has that one drawback.
    - trelane 4y ago
      That's fair. Also, not everyone can pay the premiums due to having a much smaller market either, I suppose. Too bad many that can don't. There's no way for the little players to achieve economies of scale of the big players if folks keep buying Windows hardware from the big players.
  - sigzero 4y ago
    No idea but people in fact do that.
  - elteto 4y ago
    Simple, because for running Linux there are not that many options. And the X1 Carbon is very nice hardware. Also, with that mentality, we would never extend Linux support to new hardware.
    - trelane 4y ago
      > And the X1 Carbon is very nice hardware. It doesn't sound as good as a fully supported option. It sounds a lot like commodity Windows hardware. > Also, with that mentality, we would never extend Linux support to new hardware. No, hobbyists will still do it (see e.g. Asahi) If folks keep giving their money to Windows hardware companies instead of Linux ones, they should not be surprised if the range if Linux-supporting hardware remains smaller. Like if you could just slap OSX on some random Windows PC M1 and such would never have come about. We actually have options as Linux users these days. It's a shame folks insist on wasting the opportunity.
    - mijamo 4y ago
      The X1 carbon does have fwupdates on Linux, no need for Windows

dTal 4y ago

I find the pragmatic, if ideologically galling, choice is to leave Windows around permanently, shrinking its partition as small as it will go. This preserves the ability to run any vendor-supplied utilities in perpetuity, as well as leaving the door open to reliably run some Windows software in a life-or-death situation.

bluedino 4y ago
I've had Windows 10 run certain (major?) updates that fubar the boot record or something because they ruin my dual-boot Linux install.
- jhickok 4y ago
  This has been my experience as well.
- dTal 4y ago
  Automatically, on boot? That's rather naughty. I've never encountered this but I boot into Windows with a frequency approaching "never", and I would certainly never intentionally permit it to install updates. I would be so livid if it wrecked my boot sequence without user interaction.
- beardbound 4y ago
  If you use the windows boot record as the parent boot instead of grub you can mostly get around this issue. It’s what I did on my gaming rig. I mostly use that as a development machine these days, but occasionally boot into windows for games.

lproven 4y ago

> let Windows Update install all firmware updates I did in fact say that in the article. (I wrote the story at the top of this post.)

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
I know mate, I wasn't trying to steal your thunder. I was happy to finally see someone else cover this important first step of using Windows to get your FW updated so that you ensure smooth Linux experience after install, and wanted to emphasize, from personal experience, how important this step is to having a good linux experience after install.
- lproven 4y ago
  OK, fair enough. You're right, it is important, and no, people don't talk about it as often as it deserves.

teepo 4y ago

This also holds true for pesky things like displaylink, docs, USB hubs that may need a firmware update to resolve issues with linux. Also I think some Lenovo laptops need an update to Intel ME, which for a long time and depending on your hw was only packaged as a Windows .exe

dizhn 4y ago
I used a bootable windows iso thingy the last time this was an issue for me.
- dizhn 4y ago
  This one: https://archive.org/details/win-7-pe https://archive.org/details/win-7-pe

windexh8er 4y ago

I tell friends to do a bit of digging which includes looking at what's supported but also being keen to support vendors, and the models they sell, that are supported under LVFS [0]. Booting Windows, for anything, if Linux is your daily driver is a PitA. Otherwise there's always Rufus [1] and booting into a DoS environment for firmware updates (if supported) and I believe there's still potentially ways to get "Windows to Go" working still with older Windows versions. [0] https://fwupd.org/ https://fwupd.org/ [1] http://rufus.ie/ http://rufus.ie/

donio 4y ago

Nope, Windows goes during partitioning, I'm not going to boot into that stuff even once. If I bought the laptop it's because I did my research and I am confident that I will be able to fully manage it from Linux.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
I don't get what you were trying to add here besides things that have already bee said. If you did your research and made sure to buy linux supported hardware, then good for you mate, you're free to do whatever you want now, but for us with less linux friendly hardware or unknown to the user, my point still stands, you should first update everything under windows (including usb-c/thunderbolt docking station FW) to ensure a good linux experience later.
bastard_op 4y ago
I keep the windoze partition on my thinkpad if nothing else to update the thunderbolt 4 dock firmware, as the TB3 dock just finally got fwupd support within the last few days and no telling if/when the TB4 will. It's an important part of my use, and was and is quite quirky under linux since I got it that has improved with firmware updates. I just resize it down to like 100gb that windoze can keep itself and the lenovo hardware updated when needed with their eazy button app native to their build, and build anything linux after.
raffraffraff 4y ago
If I hadn't booted my laptop into Windows (once, to updated the bios), Linux wouldn't have had working audio. And updating the bus from Linux can be a massive pain in the ass, depending on the vendor.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lhl 4y ago

One nice thing about Lenovo's business line is they fully support LVFS for easy firmware updates via Linux. Here's their system updates for the X1 Carbon g10 for example: https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/com.lenovo.ThinkPadN3AETXXW.firmware https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/com.lenovo.ThinkPadN3AETXXW.f... System76 supports LVFS and Framework has started using it for its latest beta firmware updates. (for a full list of vendors: https://fwupd.org/lvfs/vendors/ https://fwupd.org/lvfs/vendors/ )

raffraffraff 4y ago

Oh definitely! This is a top tip!

pizza234 4y ago

An alternative is to create a Windows to Go flash key, and perform periodic updates from there.