5 ms·

IMO the hardware simply isn't good enough for the mass market yet. * Motion sickness is still a really big problem * If you're short-sighted and wear glasses,

IMO the hardware simply isn't good enough for the mass market yet. * Motion sickness is still a really big problem * If you're short-sighted and wear glasses, then the picture will be blurry for you. The original PSVR worked around the issue by pushing the lends out so you could comfortably wear glasses and the headset, but none of the modern headsets afaik include this affordance. Wearing contacts isn't an option for a lot of people. * Way too expensive. I can afford one pretty easily, but most people can't. For roughly the same price as a Quest you can get an iPhone SE which is going to offer significantly more value to the average person * They're too heavy! People complain about a 240g iPhone being too heavy in the hand. The Quest is 503g on your head, and this headset in particular doesn't distribute weight very well. PSVR is slightly heavier, but is at least slightly more comfortable than the Quest due to its weight distribution. I think there might be some other factors at play, too. Throwing on a VR headset feels a lot more antisocial than watching TV or tinkering on your phone in the living room because you're wearing a giant headset that separates you from the real world. Even if the hardware does get really good, I'm not entirely sure how easy it is for manufacturers to convince families that headsets are a good purchase. I really enjoyed using my friend's VR headset to slowly play through Half-Life: Alyx. I could manage about one level at a time before needing to take the headset off and take a break, because of motion sickness + how uncomfortable the whole thing was. I think there's still a lot of R&D to do before headsets are really in a position where regular people start buying them up en masse.

mnky9800n 4y ago
i think it won't work until it is more like a holodeck and less like a vr headset.
- HPsquared 4y ago
  That's room-scale VR and is already here. You just need enough space for it.
  - mnky9800n 4y ago
    does it require a headset? then it is not representative of the holodeck.
    - HPsquared 4y ago
      Ok, fair enough. I'm imagining a room with all 6 sides covered in OLED panels. The hard part is to implement binocular vision. Shutter glasses could work I suppose, maybe even allow multiple people to use it. Refresh rate 2*n*120 Hz, where n is the number of people in the holodeck.
      - vlz 4y ago
        These exist using projectors instead of OLED-Panels. You cannot do all 6 sides because of issues with heat though. They are called CAVEs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_automatic_virtual_environment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_automatic_virtual_environ...
MikusR 4y ago
All(almost) headsets have space for normal sized glasses. Or offer lens inserts like https://vroptician.com/ https://vroptician.com/
- sophiabits 4y ago
  Hmm I could be wrong about this. My personal experience with the Index was that glasses were really uncomfortable, and I've heard from friends that they've had issues with other headsets. Maybe we all have large glasses? :) I didn't know about the lens inserts. Those are cool and definitely fix the issue if people can find them.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    Quest 2 comes with a spacer specifically for glasses.
  - andybak 4y ago
    Just another datapoint - I've never had issues with glasses either. My larger reading glasses tend to come off when I remove the headset because they touch foam padding but my regular glasses fit in every headset I've tried (other than Magic Leap's stupid "goggles" form factor - the Vive Elite XR however is fine).
aflag 4y ago
The only world vr would work the way meta wanted is a world where everyone social distances forever. There's a slight chance if it's a hyperrealistic environment where you can actually see people in the eyes. No one will replace akwardly looking at the ground as everyone directs the attention to you with a bobbling 3D avatar as their main interaction with other people.
saalweachter 4y ago
VR controllers aren't reading your mind yet. It doesn't matter how good the VR output is if I can't recline in my comfy chair with a VR helmet on and then run around a fantasy world fighting monsters and throwing fireballs while lying motionless in the real world. That's the VR future science fiction has promised.
jjulius 4y ago
>IMO the hardware simply isn't good enough for the mass market yet. >I think there might be some other factors at play, too. Throwing on a VR headset feels a lot more antisocial than watching TV or tinkering on your phone in the living room because you're wearing a giant headset that separates you from the real world. Even if the hardware does get really good, I'm not entirely sure how easy it is for manufacturers to convince families that headsets are a good purchase. Forgive my ignorance, this is a genuine question. Do people, on the whole, even want the metaverse? I see this massive push from the tech industry, a lot of public disinterest, and companies are still insisting that we want this. Do we have public polls that confirm people do crave the metaverse to the extent that tech wants us to? What is making them so confident beyond just hope?
- vinyl7 4y ago
  0% interest rates make companies throw money at useless products looking for returns because there wasn't any better use for the money. It's been like that for 5+ years, but this whole NFT/Bitcoin/Metaverse/AI meme series is the peak. Here's to hoping that these higher interest rates make companies make actually useful and profitable products instead of a bunch of meme products.
- usrbinbash 4y ago
  > Do people, on the whole, even want the metaverse? To answer that, we first need a good answer to the question: "What the hell is the 'Metaverse' supposed to be?" Because as long as that isn't answered, the question reads: "Do people, on the whole, even want another corporate buzzword?", and I think we all know the answer to that one.
- gregw2 4y ago
  Good question. I don’t have a poll but three observations. 1) People’s tastes vary. But millions of units have sold so people are open to it. 2) My non-techy 60+ year old aunt tried my Quest and kept raving about it and bought one. 3) It has potential to be more immersive. Having messed around with Quest, there are demos of things that are step functions of experience beyond what you get with a TV experience: the eye opener for me was front row seat in a small venue with your favorite band, up close and personal. When the video+3d resolution get better, it will get way more compelling. Entertainment is all about feelings. An immersive experience provides even more ability for evoking them. People do seem to value more-immersive where possible if you look at the history of TV+movies… if the distractions can be eliminated. But if the packaging tells you not to let people under 13 years to use it (because their eyesight is still developing?) (and I love the honesty), it’s fair to say the tech isn’t fully there and you aren’t going to capture the next generation of kids with spare time on their hands, among many other factors. There is also not a lot of free compelling content on Quest unlike the internet; rather they are very geared towards selling you $20 apps in their store. I respect the need to monetize but there is also a fair bit of learning still needed on marketing and business model side for both the platform and apps to drive me to keep opening the wallet. I felt like I explored most of the free content and apps in under 10 hours. Value for money just wasn’t there for me. I did feel like the tech was “good enough” that this tech would get there eventually. That is a key threshold to cross and imho has been crossed. But I am also reminded of my old (pre-iPhone-eta) WindowsCE mobile phone with stylus and web browser in my pocket. There was value there… but it was also greatly mitigated by being cumbersome in various ways.
dmix 4y ago
> The Quest is 503g on your head, and this headset in particular doesn't distribute weight very well That’s just the default strap being okay but not great, they are designed to be swappable. Amazon is full of straps that provide way better support for the back of your head. Oculus sells one too: https://www.meta.com/ca/quest/accessories/quest-2-elite-strap/ https://www.meta.com/ca/quest/accessories/quest-2-elite-stra... Also I’ve used the Oculus 2 for many hours and never had issues wearing glasses or getting motion sick. Maybe that was your VR device or a personal thing?
- ElFitz 4y ago
  > Also I’ve used the Oculus 2 for many hours and never had issues wearing glasses or getting motion sick. Maybe that was your VR device or a personal thing? Same thing with the Index. The only issues I had, despite wearing glasses, were: - Nearly going through a glass door while trying to take cover, and ending up in the hallway. - The cable. Too short. Easy to tangle. Easy to trip over. - Wondering why I suddenly had arms and where my awesome gloves had gone whenever I looked at my hands in the half-hour following any long session in Alyx. Wish it was wireless. And perhaps a bit lighter.
- skywhopper 4y ago
  The motion sickness thing is a person-by-person thing, but it’s a significant percentage of folks who experience it. Enough that it would probably prevent VR from becoming anywhere near as widespread as TV or smartphones, unless it can be solved for.
  - dmix 4y ago
    Any research on how many people experience it? I’m not convinced it’s as wide spread as people say. Usually the people on HN who always say this (usually in doomer VR will never work posts) never seem to be people who have spent much time using VR, and either relay hearsay or only played around with VR once with some old device for a short period. It takes time to get used to VR and not all devices/content are the same. I’d be surprised if it was more than 5-15% of people after long term exposure and across a wide variety of content… which would be a problem yes but hardly a market killer and the tech is always getting better.
sylens 4y ago
I think there is also a different issue - in a time where some people seem to be keenly aware of how much time they spend looking at screens and are making efforts to reduce that, the Metaverse (and any VR, really) wants to dial that up even more, instead consuming your full attention when using it
Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
> * Motion sickness is still a really big problem Depends on the game. For MOST people, the motion sickness is caused by your real world motion not matching the motion your eyes see. As a result, games that don't make you use the controller to move around (Beat Saber, Space Pirate Trainer, Pokerstars VR, and more) don't usually make people sick. But games where you move through the in-game world without moving in the real world (Any racing or flying game, any game where you make your character walk using the controllers) are nearly guaranteed to cause sickness. Many games that require your character to walk around get away with this by using teleportation. This is why I've always said that putting someone into a racing game or roller coaster simulator or something like that as their first VR experience is doing a major disservice to VR adoption.

mnky9800n 4y ago

i think it won't work until it is more like a holodeck and less like a vr headset.

HPsquared 4y ago
That's room-scale VR and is already here. You just need enough space for it.
- mnky9800n 4y ago
  does it require a headset? then it is not representative of the holodeck.
  - HPsquared 4y ago
    Ok, fair enough. I'm imagining a room with all 6 sides covered in OLED panels. The hard part is to implement binocular vision. Shutter glasses could work I suppose, maybe even allow multiple people to use it. Refresh rate 2*n*120 Hz, where n is the number of people in the holodeck.
    - vlz 4y ago
      These exist using projectors instead of OLED-Panels. You cannot do all 6 sides because of issues with heat though. They are called CAVEs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_automatic_virtual_environment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_automatic_virtual_environ...

MikusR 4y ago

All(almost) headsets have space for normal sized glasses. Or offer lens inserts like https://vroptician.com/ https://vroptician.com/

sophiabits 4y ago
Hmm I could be wrong about this. My personal experience with the Index was that glasses were really uncomfortable, and I've heard from friends that they've had issues with other headsets. Maybe we all have large glasses? :) I didn't know about the lens inserts. Those are cool and definitely fix the issue if people can find them.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  Quest 2 comes with a spacer specifically for glasses.
- andybak 4y ago
  Just another datapoint - I've never had issues with glasses either. My larger reading glasses tend to come off when I remove the headset because they touch foam padding but my regular glasses fit in every headset I've tried (other than Magic Leap's stupid "goggles" form factor - the Vive Elite XR however is fine).

aflag 4y ago

The only world vr would work the way meta wanted is a world where everyone social distances forever. There's a slight chance if it's a hyperrealistic environment where you can actually see people in the eyes. No one will replace akwardly looking at the ground as everyone directs the attention to you with a bobbling 3D avatar as their main interaction with other people.

saalweachter 4y ago

VR controllers aren't reading your mind yet. It doesn't matter how good the VR output is if I can't recline in my comfy chair with a VR helmet on and then run around a fantasy world fighting monsters and throwing fireballs while lying motionless in the real world. That's the VR future science fiction has promised.

jjulius 4y ago

>IMO the hardware simply isn't good enough for the mass market yet. >I think there might be some other factors at play, too. Throwing on a VR headset feels a lot more antisocial than watching TV or tinkering on your phone in the living room because you're wearing a giant headset that separates you from the real world. Even if the hardware does get really good, I'm not entirely sure how easy it is for manufacturers to convince families that headsets are a good purchase. Forgive my ignorance, this is a genuine question. Do people, on the whole, even want the metaverse? I see this massive push from the tech industry, a lot of public disinterest, and companies are still insisting that we want this. Do we have public polls that confirm people do crave the metaverse to the extent that tech wants us to? What is making them so confident beyond just hope?

vinyl7 4y ago
0% interest rates make companies throw money at useless products looking for returns because there wasn't any better use for the money. It's been like that for 5+ years, but this whole NFT/Bitcoin/Metaverse/AI meme series is the peak. Here's to hoping that these higher interest rates make companies make actually useful and profitable products instead of a bunch of meme products.
usrbinbash 4y ago
> Do people, on the whole, even want the metaverse? To answer that, we first need a good answer to the question: "What the hell is the 'Metaverse' supposed to be?" Because as long as that isn't answered, the question reads: "Do people, on the whole, even want another corporate buzzword?", and I think we all know the answer to that one.
gregw2 4y ago
Good question. I don’t have a poll but three observations. 1) People’s tastes vary. But millions of units have sold so people are open to it. 2) My non-techy 60+ year old aunt tried my Quest and kept raving about it and bought one. 3) It has potential to be more immersive. Having messed around with Quest, there are demos of things that are step functions of experience beyond what you get with a TV experience: the eye opener for me was front row seat in a small venue with your favorite band, up close and personal. When the video+3d resolution get better, it will get way more compelling. Entertainment is all about feelings. An immersive experience provides even more ability for evoking them. People do seem to value more-immersive where possible if you look at the history of TV+movies… if the distractions can be eliminated. But if the packaging tells you not to let people under 13 years to use it (because their eyesight is still developing?) (and I love the honesty), it’s fair to say the tech isn’t fully there and you aren’t going to capture the next generation of kids with spare time on their hands, among many other factors. There is also not a lot of free compelling content on Quest unlike the internet; rather they are very geared towards selling you $20 apps in their store. I respect the need to monetize but there is also a fair bit of learning still needed on marketing and business model side for both the platform and apps to drive me to keep opening the wallet. I felt like I explored most of the free content and apps in under 10 hours. Value for money just wasn’t there for me. I did feel like the tech was “good enough” that this tech would get there eventually. That is a key threshold to cross and imho has been crossed. But I am also reminded of my old (pre-iPhone-eta) WindowsCE mobile phone with stylus and web browser in my pocket. There was value there… but it was also greatly mitigated by being cumbersome in various ways.

dmix 4y ago

> The Quest is 503g on your head, and this headset in particular doesn't distribute weight very well That’s just the default strap being okay but not great, they are designed to be swappable. Amazon is full of straps that provide way better support for the back of your head. Oculus sells one too: https://www.meta.com/ca/quest/accessories/quest-2-elite-strap/ https://www.meta.com/ca/quest/accessories/quest-2-elite-stra... Also I’ve used the Oculus 2 for many hours and never had issues wearing glasses or getting motion sick. Maybe that was your VR device or a personal thing?

ElFitz 4y ago
> Also I’ve used the Oculus 2 for many hours and never had issues wearing glasses or getting motion sick. Maybe that was your VR device or a personal thing? Same thing with the Index. The only issues I had, despite wearing glasses, were: - Nearly going through a glass door while trying to take cover, and ending up in the hallway. - The cable. Too short. Easy to tangle. Easy to trip over. - Wondering why I suddenly had arms and where my awesome gloves had gone whenever I looked at my hands in the half-hour following any long session in Alyx. Wish it was wireless. And perhaps a bit lighter.
skywhopper 4y ago
The motion sickness thing is a person-by-person thing, but it’s a significant percentage of folks who experience it. Enough that it would probably prevent VR from becoming anywhere near as widespread as TV or smartphones, unless it can be solved for.
- dmix 4y ago
  Any research on how many people experience it? I’m not convinced it’s as wide spread as people say. Usually the people on HN who always say this (usually in doomer VR will never work posts) never seem to be people who have spent much time using VR, and either relay hearsay or only played around with VR once with some old device for a short period. It takes time to get used to VR and not all devices/content are the same. I’d be surprised if it was more than 5-15% of people after long term exposure and across a wide variety of content… which would be a problem yes but hardly a market killer and the tech is always getting better.

sylens 4y ago

I think there is also a different issue - in a time where some people seem to be keenly aware of how much time they spend looking at screens and are making efforts to reduce that, the Metaverse (and any VR, really) wants to dial that up even more, instead consuming your full attention when using it

Sohcahtoa82 4y ago

> * Motion sickness is still a really big problem Depends on the game. For MOST people, the motion sickness is caused by your real world motion not matching the motion your eyes see. As a result, games that don't make you use the controller to move around (Beat Saber, Space Pirate Trainer, Pokerstars VR, and more) don't usually make people sick. But games where you move through the in-game world without moving in the real world (Any racing or flying game, any game where you make your character walk using the controllers) are nearly guaranteed to cause sickness. Many games that require your character to walk around get away with this by using teleportation. This is why I've always said that putting someone into a racing game or roller coaster simulator or something like that as their first VR experience is doing a major disservice to VR adoption.