4 ms·

> "... if you don't mind Lenovo's modern chiclet keyboards. For this particular vulture, the older seven-row design was vastly better, and we concur with our co

> "... if you don't mind Lenovo's modern chiclet keyboards. For this particular vulture, the older seven-row design was vastly better, and we concur with our colleague who decried the modern "godawful chiclet six-row keyboard."" This. Linux or no, systemd or no - I need a laptop with a decent keyboard to type on, and it's been 10 years since Lenovo has offered those. Why can't those corporate managers get it through their heads that we need laptops to work with, not as a shiny fashion accessory?

adql 4y ago
I guess they come to conclusion all proper work gets done with docking station and proper keyboard at the very least
- ploum 4y ago
  I’m not so optimistic. I feel the opposite: managers are convinced that "real" work is all about copy/pasting slides in powerpoint and clicking cells in excel. In fact, most of them are happy to "work" on their phone or tablet. Nearly none of them could touchtype anyway. So, yeah, keyboard is a thing for the working plebs. As long as it has a key to "launch videoconferencing". (and Apple is even worse in that regard)
  - pmontra 4y ago
    I'm siding with you. I add that maybe the new keyboard costs a little less than the old one and that's all some managers need to decide between two options.
ako 4y ago
What is this 7th row of keys you’re talking about? My P1 thinkpad has 6 rows, just like my 75% external mechanical keyboard. No problem getting work done with just 6 rows, as long as I don’t visit HN too often…
- lproven 4y ago
  [Author of the story here] You're looking at one of the later models. The P1 also has a 6-row chiclet keyboard. Up until the X220, T420 and W520 models, Thinkpads had 7 rows of keys. From bottom to top: 1. Fn/Ctrl/Alt... cursor keys 2. Shift/\/Z... 3. CapsLk/A/S... 4. Tab/Q/W... 5. |/1/2... 6. F1/F2... 7. Esc/mute/Vol down/Vol up/Mic/Thinkvantage/Power/PrtSc/ScrlLk/Pause/Ins/Del/Home/PgUp
  - Clubber 4y ago
    I had a W520 and I agree, when Lenovo changed their keyboards to chase Apple, they removed one of their most compelling features.
    - lproven 4y ago
      Thanks. Always glad to hear that it's not just me. :-)
ofalkaed 4y ago
The current X1/X13 have the best laptop keyboard I have used since my old T42, they are quite nice to type on. The whole chiclet or not thing is primarily aesthetic, having little bevels on the edges of the keys does not affect use, I suppose if you have long finger nails you could use them to depress the key on the bevel but that seems rather awkward. 6 vs 7 row could be an issue for some but I personally don't mind having to hit the fn key to adjust volume or screen brightness.
- lproven 4y ago
  I strongly disagree. (FWIW, I wrote this review.) I have about a dozen Thinkpads myself, which is why I was interested to review this one and the Arm-based X13s. I dislike the keyboards, and while they are among the best chiclet keyboards on the market , for me, it is fair and accurate to say that all chiclet keyboards are far worse than all pre-chiclet Thinkpad keyboards. No Thinkpads since the 220/420/520 have been pleasant to type on. They are all poorer than the older models.
  - ofalkaed 4y ago
    You strongly disagree that the X1 and X13 have the best laptop keyboards that I have used since my old T42? Or that the side bevels serve no purpose beyond aesthetics? I don't think you can make a case for either but feel free to try.
    - lproven 4y ago
      If you are happy, good for you. For me, I have tried several X1 models, Carbon and non-Carbon, and I find the keyboards to be poor. Bezels on keys (is that the right term?) make no real difference to me. Any Thinkpad with a chiclet keyboard is inferior to any Thinkpad with a non-chiclet keyboard. I often hear people say things like "oh the early ones were poor but they've got better" or "it was bad at first but they improved". I don't think they've improved. I thought they were junk when they were new (e.g. X230) and they're still junk (e.g. 2022 models). Again, I am not proclaiming this as some universal truth. It's my opinion, and only that. But there are a list of things I like about my older Thinkpads: great best-in-industry keyboards, easily end-user upgradable disk and RAM, lots of disk bays, lots of ports, removable batteries, easy disassembly without special tools, easy to replace keyboards, pointing devicer, and so on. Modern Thinkpads lack all these. Junk keyboards, sealed units, few ports, few bays, not upgradable, not end-user maintainable. Thinkpads were Rolls-Royce laptops, user-serviceable, a joy to use, and with a long lifetime that was readily extended. New ones are, to me, overpriced glued-together plastic junk, as poor as any other make... But they're still black and still have a Trackpoint. So people who never tried the old ones think that being a Thinkpad means an average laptop but it's black and has a red dot thing that they don't know how to use, and they don't get why people rate Thinkpads so highly.
Sosh101 4y ago
I've got a 7th Gen X1, and the keyboard is honestly a pleasure to use.
- lproven 4y ago
  [Author of the linked review here] I am happy that you like your machine. I have tried lots of them, including X230, X240, X1, X1C, X13s and others. I deeply and thoroughly dislike them. Lenovo has destroyed one of the main reasons to own Thinkpads, IMHO.

adql 4y ago

I guess they come to conclusion all proper work gets done with docking station and proper keyboard at the very least

ploum 4y ago
I’m not so optimistic. I feel the opposite: managers are convinced that "real" work is all about copy/pasting slides in powerpoint and clicking cells in excel. In fact, most of them are happy to "work" on their phone or tablet. Nearly none of them could touchtype anyway. So, yeah, keyboard is a thing for the working plebs. As long as it has a key to "launch videoconferencing". (and Apple is even worse in that regard)
- pmontra 4y ago
  I'm siding with you. I add that maybe the new keyboard costs a little less than the old one and that's all some managers need to decide between two options.

ako 4y ago

What is this 7th row of keys you’re talking about? My P1 thinkpad has 6 rows, just like my 75% external mechanical keyboard. No problem getting work done with just 6 rows, as long as I don’t visit HN too often…

lproven 4y ago
[Author of the story here] You're looking at one of the later models. The P1 also has a 6-row chiclet keyboard. Up until the X220, T420 and W520 models, Thinkpads had 7 rows of keys. From bottom to top: 1. Fn/Ctrl/Alt... cursor keys 2. Shift/\/Z... 3. CapsLk/A/S... 4. Tab/Q/W... 5. |/1/2... 6. F1/F2... 7. Esc/mute/Vol down/Vol up/Mic/Thinkvantage/Power/PrtSc/ScrlLk/Pause/Ins/Del/Home/PgUp
- Clubber 4y ago
  I had a W520 and I agree, when Lenovo changed their keyboards to chase Apple, they removed one of their most compelling features.
  - lproven 4y ago
    Thanks. Always glad to hear that it's not just me. :-)

ofalkaed 4y ago

The current X1/X13 have the best laptop keyboard I have used since my old T42, they are quite nice to type on. The whole chiclet or not thing is primarily aesthetic, having little bevels on the edges of the keys does not affect use, I suppose if you have long finger nails you could use them to depress the key on the bevel but that seems rather awkward. 6 vs 7 row could be an issue for some but I personally don't mind having to hit the fn key to adjust volume or screen brightness.

lproven 4y ago
I strongly disagree. (FWIW, I wrote this review.) I have about a dozen Thinkpads myself, which is why I was interested to review this one and the Arm-based X13s. I dislike the keyboards, and while they are among the best chiclet keyboards on the market , for me, it is fair and accurate to say that all chiclet keyboards are far worse than all pre-chiclet Thinkpad keyboards. No Thinkpads since the 220/420/520 have been pleasant to type on. They are all poorer than the older models.
- ofalkaed 4y ago
  You strongly disagree that the X1 and X13 have the best laptop keyboards that I have used since my old T42? Or that the side bevels serve no purpose beyond aesthetics? I don't think you can make a case for either but feel free to try.
  - lproven 4y ago
    If you are happy, good for you. For me, I have tried several X1 models, Carbon and non-Carbon, and I find the keyboards to be poor. Bezels on keys (is that the right term?) make no real difference to me. Any Thinkpad with a chiclet keyboard is inferior to any Thinkpad with a non-chiclet keyboard. I often hear people say things like "oh the early ones were poor but they've got better" or "it was bad at first but they improved". I don't think they've improved. I thought they were junk when they were new (e.g. X230) and they're still junk (e.g. 2022 models). Again, I am not proclaiming this as some universal truth. It's my opinion, and only that. But there are a list of things I like about my older Thinkpads: great best-in-industry keyboards, easily end-user upgradable disk and RAM, lots of disk bays, lots of ports, removable batteries, easy disassembly without special tools, easy to replace keyboards, pointing devicer, and so on. Modern Thinkpads lack all these. Junk keyboards, sealed units, few ports, few bays, not upgradable, not end-user maintainable. Thinkpads were Rolls-Royce laptops, user-serviceable, a joy to use, and with a long lifetime that was readily extended. New ones are, to me, overpriced glued-together plastic junk, as poor as any other make... But they're still black and still have a Trackpoint. So people who never tried the old ones think that being a Thinkpad means an average laptop but it's black and has a red dot thing that they don't know how to use, and they don't get why people rate Thinkpads so highly.

Sosh101 4y ago

I've got a 7th Gen X1, and the keyboard is honestly a pleasure to use.

lproven 4y ago
[Author of the linked review here] I am happy that you like your machine. I have tried lots of them, including X230, X240, X1, X1C, X13s and others. I deeply and thoroughly dislike them. Lenovo has destroyed one of the main reasons to own Thinkpads, IMHO.