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Virgil Griffith is in jail for discussing how Bitcoin works at a high level at an academic conference... So you are quite grounded in rationality.

by elif 4y ago

rwmj 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Griffith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Griffith > Griffith was arrested in 2019, and in 2021 pleaded guilty to conspiring to violate U.S. laws relating to money laundering using cryptocurrency and sanctions related to North Korea.[5] On April 12, 2022, Griffith was sentenced to 63 months imprisonment for assisting North Korea with evading sanctions and is currently in a federal low-security prison in Pennsylvania
- elif 4y ago
  Correct he gave a talk at an academic conference on digital currency and Blockchain in which he described how a Bitcoin transaction works. Here's the article "He gave a Cryptocurrency talk in North Korea, the US arrested him" The slides are (or were?) available. None of the content of his talk was secret or beyond what is published on the Bitcoin Wikipedia page. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/02/nyregion/north-korea-virgil-griffin-cyptocurrency-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/02/nyregion/north-korea-virg... Edit: it's worth noting that no transaction took place.. he was arrested because the FBI told him not to go and he did anyway.
  - rwmj 4y ago
    Going to North Korea and assisting them to launder money and bypass sanctions is illegal (aside from being utterly stupid and immoral), which is why he plead guilty and is now in prison.
    - elif 4y ago
      It is hardly different from saying "you could put cash in duffel bags and the transaction would be hard to trace" Is that assistance? It is just a basic statement of fact. Is wikipedia guilty of providing assistance to NK? They provide far more in depth "assistance" to anyone wanting to perform a Bitcoin transaction. Bringing this back to my original comment, you can see why the federal government would restrict the flow of fundamental technical knowledge by virtue of this extreme case. No source code or application was shared, no secrets or privileged information, merely encyclopedic facts were deemed illegal to share. Also if you were facing the indefinite assange treatment I imagine you would seek a plea deal as well..
      - extr 4y ago
        > Is that assistance? ...Yes? The fact that it's basic and they already know how to do it is irrelevant. The law isn't "it's okay to give them advice as long as the advice is sufficiently generic and obvious".
        elif 4y ago
        So your position is that wikipedia are terrorists too? Why would their "advise" be exempt?
        samus 4y ago
        Because of a similar reasoning why gas station owners don't get complicit in crimes when they sell fuel to potential criminals. At least as long as they can plausibly deny knowing of the crime and they provide similar service than to any other customer. Wikipedia, and the sources where its content comes from, is not intended to help anybody specific. Flying to North Korea and holding a lecture there is firmly beyond the line where the US government starts to care because it demonstrates clear intent. Especially since during the Q&A and other activities other information not available to the public could have been discussed. And even if there was no secret sauce involved, an expert's opinion can still save the North Koreans a lot of time and money when pursuing their goals.
      - throwaway290 4y ago
        You made a great point but it's the opposite of what you argue for. Duffel bags full of cash moved across borders are quite easy to spot, not to mention the numbers of people transporting them (along the way stealing some or cooperating with law). That's why dictators don't like duffel bags of cash and really like cryptocurrency.
      - rwmj 4y ago
        So wait, if the North Koreans can just read all about it on Wikipedia, why did they invite him to the conference? Also North Korea is a strange hill to die on. It's a brutal dictatorship which represses their own people and threatens to reign nuclear hell on their neighbours and the US. There's a very clear moral line that it's wrong to help them to launder money and evade sanctions, even if it weren't illegal.

Virgil Griffith is in jail for discussing how Bitcoin works at a high level at an academic conference... So you are quite grounded in rationality.

by elif 4y ago

Virgil Griffith is in jail for discussing how Bitcoin works at a high level at an academic conference... So you are quite grounded in rationality.

rwmj 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Griffith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Griffith > Griffith was arrested in 2019, and in 2021 pleaded guilty to conspiring to violate U.S. laws relating to money laundering using cryptocurrency and sanctions related to North Korea.[5] On April 12, 2022, Griffith was sentenced to 63 months imprisonment for assisting North Korea with evading sanctions and is currently in a federal low-security prison in Pennsylvania

elif 4y ago
Correct he gave a talk at an academic conference on digital currency and Blockchain in which he described how a Bitcoin transaction works. Here's the article "He gave a Cryptocurrency talk in North Korea, the US arrested him" The slides are (or were?) available. None of the content of his talk was secret or beyond what is published on the Bitcoin Wikipedia page. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/02/nyregion/north-korea-virgil-griffin-cyptocurrency-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/02/nyregion/north-korea-virg... Edit: it's worth noting that no transaction took place.. he was arrested because the FBI told him not to go and he did anyway.
- rwmj 4y ago
  Going to North Korea and assisting them to launder money and bypass sanctions is illegal (aside from being utterly stupid and immoral), which is why he plead guilty and is now in prison.
  - elif 4y ago
    It is hardly different from saying "you could put cash in duffel bags and the transaction would be hard to trace" Is that assistance? It is just a basic statement of fact. Is wikipedia guilty of providing assistance to NK? They provide far more in depth "assistance" to anyone wanting to perform a Bitcoin transaction. Bringing this back to my original comment, you can see why the federal government would restrict the flow of fundamental technical knowledge by virtue of this extreme case. No source code or application was shared, no secrets or privileged information, merely encyclopedic facts were deemed illegal to share. Also if you were facing the indefinite assange treatment I imagine you would seek a plea deal as well..
    - extr 4y ago
      > Is that assistance? ...Yes? The fact that it's basic and they already know how to do it is irrelevant. The law isn't "it's okay to give them advice as long as the advice is sufficiently generic and obvious".
      - elif 4y ago
        So your position is that wikipedia are terrorists too? Why would their "advise" be exempt?
        samus 4y ago
        Because of a similar reasoning why gas station owners don't get complicit in crimes when they sell fuel to potential criminals. At least as long as they can plausibly deny knowing of the crime and they provide similar service than to any other customer. Wikipedia, and the sources where its content comes from, is not intended to help anybody specific. Flying to North Korea and holding a lecture there is firmly beyond the line where the US government starts to care because it demonstrates clear intent. Especially since during the Q&A and other activities other information not available to the public could have been discussed. And even if there was no secret sauce involved, an expert's opinion can still save the North Koreans a lot of time and money when pursuing their goals.
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      You made a great point but it's the opposite of what you argue for. Duffel bags full of cash moved across borders are quite easy to spot, not to mention the numbers of people transporting them (along the way stealing some or cooperating with law). That's why dictators don't like duffel bags of cash and really like cryptocurrency.
    - rwmj 4y ago
      So wait, if the North Koreans can just read all about it on Wikipedia, why did they invite him to the conference? Also North Korea is a strange hill to die on. It's a brutal dictatorship which represses their own people and threatens to reign nuclear hell on their neighbours and the US. There's a very clear moral line that it's wrong to help them to launder money and evade sanctions, even if it weren't illegal.