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Yeah, I'm not touching EVs until Mazda makes a dumb and cute one with physical buttons and dials.

burkaman 4y ago
Mazda is kind of lagging, but there are relatively cheap EVs with physical buttons now. It's not all Tesla-style luxury stuff. Example: https://www.miniusa.com/model/electric-hardtop.html https://www.miniusa.com/model/electric-hardtop.html They all do seem to have some sort of screen though, sorry.
- fiddlerwoaroof 4y ago
  I think the screen is more or less mandatory because backup cameras are mandatory.
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    Yep, and touchscreens are vastly better with Android Auto.
    - rblatz 4y ago
      I strongly disagree. My biggest issue with the Polestar was its jank android auto interface.
      - _ea1k 4y ago
        I think I worded that poorly. I meant that Android Auto with a touch screen is much better than Android Auto with buttons. Some Android Auto setups are bad either way, though, tbh.
  - amatecha 4y ago
    What? Why/where are backup cameras mandatory? If you can't drive/park without assistive cameras you shouldn't have a drivers license, period.
    - prpl 4y ago
      the US? Since like 2017 or earlier. They aren’t for parking, they are so people don’t run over toddlers when backing up
    - foobarian 4y ago
      The United States for one (new cars only). Also: the backup camera is very nice. I can survive without one but it is oh so nice. I can hook up a hitch in one go.
    - dwighttk 4y ago
      I've heard mandatory backup cameras have to do with the rear end collision safety ratings which seem to only be able to be passed by building up the back end of the car leaving a much bigger blind spot when you are backing up.
      - coredog64 4y ago
        Backup cameras were required because of a string of tragic “family member backs over own child in driveway” incidents. If it saves one life… and all that is easier to sell if it’s toddlers.
        XorNot 4y ago
        Well, also they're cheap as hell and there's zero reason they shouldn't be in everything. Frankly I think all cars should come with those birdseye camera systems - it's 4 cameras and makes parallel parking a breeze.
        dwighttk 4y ago
        Chicken or egg
    - bckygldstn 4y ago
      The US and Canada since 2018. The EU since 2022 (for new models: existing models get until 2024)[1]. As for why in the US: literally too many kids being killed by their parents in SUVs and trucks [2]. [1] https://bmdv.bund.de/SharedDocs/EN/Articles/StV/Roadtraffic/new-vehicle-safety-systems.html https://bmdv.bund.de/SharedDocs/EN/Articles/StV/Roadtraffic/... [2] https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/110th-congress/senate-report/275/1 https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/110th-congress...
_ea1k 4y ago
I think its coming. At least I'm assuming our local Mazda dealer isn't planning a DCFC installation because they think the MX-30 will suddenly become popular in the southeastern US.
rgmerk 4y ago
The Japanese car companies including Mazda are way behind on EVs, Nissan arguably excepted. The MX-30 EV is very expensive and has a tiny battery and consequently terrible driving range. It’s a city-only vehicle. The Japanese auto industry, more than anywhere else, is on a burning platform.
- mcbishop 4y ago
  > Nissan arguably excepted Why arguably? The Leaf is awesome. Nissan blazed the trail with bidirectional charging.
  - nukeman 4y ago
    They let their rollout lag significantly, pinning things on one model for a long time. There was likely some internal corporate politicking involved.
  - theluketaylor 4y ago
    Leaf is decidedly not awesome. The lack of liquid cooling means it runs into thermal limits very easily and battery degradation has been a real issue for them. CHAdeMO is arguably the better spec, but since it's a dead plug for north america and can't handle AC people with leafs are going to find themselves tethered very close to home. If someone needs a commuter only car they are okay, but I think I'd get a bolt over a leaf if I wanted a cheap used commuter EV.
    - glogla 4y ago
      Yes. It would be fine if the Leaf was cheaper. But at least around here, Leaf costs Tesla money, and getting worse product for the same money makes no sense.
  - WorldMaker 4y ago
    One reason to argue about Nissan is how much they've let their head start stagnate. The Leaf was Ghosn's baby and some of the ouster of Ghosn was Japanese Nissan leadership getting cold feet about EVs (because none of their Japanese peers cared about EVs "so why should they?") right at the point in time where they should have accelerated. (The EV concerns being on top of/correlated with conspiracy theories that Ghosn was too friendly with French-owned Nissan sibling Renault because they were just about all-in on EVs and Ghosn was hoping for early economies of scale, faster, but that looked to Japanese investors too much like a French coup for Nissan ownership. Also, my favorite alleged part of that conspiracy was Ghosn saw Nissan of America as an SUV/Truck-loving albatross around Nissan's neck and suggested that the very profitable division get renamed back to Datsun to make it easier to pull the ripcord and jettison the entire division once EVs started to get popular enough and its absurd profits became absurd losses.) I don't know if the truth will ever come out how much of a crook Ghosn was or was not, versus the spin of the Japanese court system and many conspiracy theories that came out of all that, but that saga definitely seemed to put the breaks on Nissan's EV efforts at a bad moment and they do seem to be lagging behind where they should be considering their head start with the Leaf. It's a fascinating story no matter what the facts were on the ground.
nebula8804 4y ago
I would LOVE a full EV Mazda 3. Mazda 3 was and still is my first car and I'd love to stay in the family (rust issues aside). Unfortunately they have a history of lagging in this space, either due to mentality or just the fact that they don't have the money to transition over without help (hence them partnering up with Toyota). Fun fact: One of their chief designers: Franz von Holthausen just happened to become the lead designer at Tesla! Him leaving Mazda was well documented back in around 2010. He talked about how was frustrated that at Mazda any green initiative was always nothing more than a side project. Hopefully things have changed now.

Mazda is kind of lagging, but there are relatively cheap EVs with physical buttons now. It's not all Tesla-style luxury stuff. Example: https://www.miniusa.com/model/electric-hardtop.html https://www.miniusa.com/model/electric-hardtop.html They all do seem to have some sort of screen though, sorry.

fiddlerwoaroof 4y ago
I think the screen is more or less mandatory because backup cameras are mandatory.
- _ea1k 4y ago
  Yep, and touchscreens are vastly better with Android Auto.
  - rblatz 4y ago
    I strongly disagree. My biggest issue with the Polestar was its jank android auto interface.
    - _ea1k 4y ago
      I think I worded that poorly. I meant that Android Auto with a touch screen is much better than Android Auto with buttons. Some Android Auto setups are bad either way, though, tbh.
- amatecha 4y ago
  What? Why/where are backup cameras mandatory? If you can't drive/park without assistive cameras you shouldn't have a drivers license, period.
  - prpl 4y ago
    the US? Since like 2017 or earlier. They aren’t for parking, they are so people don’t run over toddlers when backing up
  - foobarian 4y ago
    The United States for one (new cars only). Also: the backup camera is very nice. I can survive without one but it is oh so nice. I can hook up a hitch in one go.
  - dwighttk 4y ago
    I've heard mandatory backup cameras have to do with the rear end collision safety ratings which seem to only be able to be passed by building up the back end of the car leaving a much bigger blind spot when you are backing up.
    - coredog64 4y ago
      Backup cameras were required because of a string of tragic “family member backs over own child in driveway” incidents. If it saves one life… and all that is easier to sell if it’s toddlers.
      - XorNot 4y ago
        Well, also they're cheap as hell and there's zero reason they shouldn't be in everything. Frankly I think all cars should come with those birdseye camera systems - it's 4 cameras and makes parallel parking a breeze.
      - dwighttk 4y ago
        Chicken or egg
  - bckygldstn 4y ago
    The US and Canada since 2018. The EU since 2022 (for new models: existing models get until 2024)[1]. As for why in the US: literally too many kids being killed by their parents in SUVs and trucks [2]. [1] https://bmdv.bund.de/SharedDocs/EN/Articles/StV/Roadtraffic/new-vehicle-safety-systems.html https://bmdv.bund.de/SharedDocs/EN/Articles/StV/Roadtraffic/... [2] https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/110th-congress/senate-report/275/1 https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/110th-congress...

_ea1k 4y ago

I think its coming. At least I'm assuming our local Mazda dealer isn't planning a DCFC installation because they think the MX-30 will suddenly become popular in the southeastern US.

rgmerk 4y ago

The Japanese car companies including Mazda are way behind on EVs, Nissan arguably excepted. The MX-30 EV is very expensive and has a tiny battery and consequently terrible driving range. It’s a city-only vehicle. The Japanese auto industry, more than anywhere else, is on a burning platform.

mcbishop 4y ago
> Nissan arguably excepted Why arguably? The Leaf is awesome. Nissan blazed the trail with bidirectional charging.
- nukeman 4y ago
  They let their rollout lag significantly, pinning things on one model for a long time. There was likely some internal corporate politicking involved.
- theluketaylor 4y ago
  Leaf is decidedly not awesome. The lack of liquid cooling means it runs into thermal limits very easily and battery degradation has been a real issue for them. CHAdeMO is arguably the better spec, but since it's a dead plug for north america and can't handle AC people with leafs are going to find themselves tethered very close to home. If someone needs a commuter only car they are okay, but I think I'd get a bolt over a leaf if I wanted a cheap used commuter EV.
  - glogla 4y ago
    Yes. It would be fine if the Leaf was cheaper. But at least around here, Leaf costs Tesla money, and getting worse product for the same money makes no sense.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  One reason to argue about Nissan is how much they've let their head start stagnate. The Leaf was Ghosn's baby and some of the ouster of Ghosn was Japanese Nissan leadership getting cold feet about EVs (because none of their Japanese peers cared about EVs "so why should they?") right at the point in time where they should have accelerated. (The EV concerns being on top of/correlated with conspiracy theories that Ghosn was too friendly with French-owned Nissan sibling Renault because they were just about all-in on EVs and Ghosn was hoping for early economies of scale, faster, but that looked to Japanese investors too much like a French coup for Nissan ownership. Also, my favorite alleged part of that conspiracy was Ghosn saw Nissan of America as an SUV/Truck-loving albatross around Nissan's neck and suggested that the very profitable division get renamed back to Datsun to make it easier to pull the ripcord and jettison the entire division once EVs started to get popular enough and its absurd profits became absurd losses.) I don't know if the truth will ever come out how much of a crook Ghosn was or was not, versus the spin of the Japanese court system and many conspiracy theories that came out of all that, but that saga definitely seemed to put the breaks on Nissan's EV efforts at a bad moment and they do seem to be lagging behind where they should be considering their head start with the Leaf. It's a fascinating story no matter what the facts were on the ground.

nebula8804 4y ago

I would LOVE a full EV Mazda 3. Mazda 3 was and still is my first car and I'd love to stay in the family (rust issues aside). Unfortunately they have a history of lagging in this space, either due to mentality or just the fact that they don't have the money to transition over without help (hence them partnering up with Toyota). Fun fact: One of their chief designers: Franz von Holthausen just happened to become the lead designer at Tesla! Him leaving Mazda was well documented back in around 2010. He talked about how was frustrated that at Mazda any green initiative was always nothing more than a side project. Hopefully things have changed now.