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I'm fine if TikTok gets banned, but I feel like Facebook and all the other social media incumbents owe Americans a bunch of money for their biggest competition

by sct202 4y ago

I'm fine if TikTok gets banned, but I feel like Facebook and all the other social media incumbents owe Americans a bunch of money for their biggest competition being banned.

spiderice 4y ago
> I'm fine if TikTok gets banned How are so many people (especially on HN) fine with this? Haven't we criticized "The Great Firewall of China" for literally decades? How is this not the start of that? Genuine question. This ban seems to set horrible precedent to me. Bet everyones "coolness" with it makes me think I'm not understanding something.
- NLPaep 4y ago
  The media is the fourth branch of government. It is wildly considered to be essential for a healthy democracy. You don’t want to have it controlled (for many people) by an untrustworthy and adversarial party, especially when they have a long track record of censorship and are trying to extend their own influence and rules globally. We can still say and post what we want - it’s not content that’s being censored.
  - symlinkk 4y ago
    How about I choose for myself what I want to read? Why do you think you know better than me?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - saurik 4y ago
    Isn't this exactly what China says about us? (And no: I don't believe them... but that frankly isn't the point. We normally get to dislike their position on indirect philosophical grounds--that people should get to see and do whatever they want and if freedom is dangerous to you then you are the aggressor--irregardless of whether they are "correct", and so we lose the moral high ground and will have to sit around in a direct mud-slinging argument if we try to use the same kind of "for the good of the people we must all lose our freedom" argument.)
- vkou 4y ago
  You're understanding everything just fine. Speech advocates should be livid about this, but their silence on the question is quite telling. As the sibling post mentions, the public is too stupid to be allowed to be communicated at by an untrustworthy and adversarial media. Of course, untrustworthy and adversarial refers to foreign enemies, not domestic[1] ones. [1] Fox and friends, et al, would be the poster children[2] for untrustworthy and adversarial, but they are our untrustworthy and adversarial media firms, so mysteriously, they get a free pass. [2] Just imagine if the 'batshit right-wing conspiracy' half of the US media landscape were ran by the Kremlin (Or some other boogieman of the week), instead of a billionaire from Australia. Same content, different source, would drive people utterly livid.
- alephnerd 4y ago
  Depends on the "We" I personally was deep into digital privacy back in grade school and college when the Arab Spring began, but my own thinking shifted after learning about and working with people who blue teamed incidents like Operation Aurora and Titan Rain, as well as censorship of FB and Whatsapp in the PRC following unrest in East Turkestan in 2009.
- localplume 4y ago
  because some people understand geopolitics and the threat of foreign propaganda undermining the nations security? but sure, lets not ban it. lets not stop any foreign interference in our institutions and lets let our adversaries brain wash our population into destroying our country, but as long as we feel righteous that we have freedom right? thats all that matters? every time someone brings up a whataboutism as a rebuttle to that, "what about american social media companies?? they are much worse", they are doing exactly what China wants. China will gladly sit by and watch our destruction, prodding it along, as we eat each other. Most people are just oblivious to it and will deny it because of how much peace we've had, and how far we've gone without a near-peer enemy. at least with this bill we can stop the bleed. I was once a diehard defender of digital privacy and a small government, but over time I realized that the world really is not peaceful and countries exist out there that want to see our people dead. I understand it, I get it. But so many people are oblivious to foreign threats that they are willing to undermine their own country just so they can be on their high horse. It's not worth it.

by sct202 4y ago

I'm fine if TikTok gets banned, but I feel like Facebook and all the other social media incumbents owe Americans a bunch of money for their biggest competition being banned.

spiderice 4y ago

> I'm fine if TikTok gets banned How are so many people (especially on HN) fine with this? Haven't we criticized "The Great Firewall of China" for literally decades? How is this not the start of that? Genuine question. This ban seems to set horrible precedent to me. Bet everyones "coolness" with it makes me think I'm not understanding something.

NLPaep 4y ago
The media is the fourth branch of government. It is wildly considered to be essential for a healthy democracy. You don’t want to have it controlled (for many people) by an untrustworthy and adversarial party, especially when they have a long track record of censorship and are trying to extend their own influence and rules globally. We can still say and post what we want - it’s not content that’s being censored.
- symlinkk 4y ago
  How about I choose for myself what I want to read? Why do you think you know better than me?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- saurik 4y ago
  Isn't this exactly what China says about us? (And no: I don't believe them... but that frankly isn't the point. We normally get to dislike their position on indirect philosophical grounds--that people should get to see and do whatever they want and if freedom is dangerous to you then you are the aggressor--irregardless of whether they are "correct", and so we lose the moral high ground and will have to sit around in a direct mud-slinging argument if we try to use the same kind of "for the good of the people we must all lose our freedom" argument.)
vkou 4y ago
You're understanding everything just fine. Speech advocates should be livid about this, but their silence on the question is quite telling. As the sibling post mentions, the public is too stupid to be allowed to be communicated at by an untrustworthy and adversarial media. Of course, untrustworthy and adversarial refers to foreign enemies, not domestic[1] ones. [1] Fox and friends, et al, would be the poster children[2] for untrustworthy and adversarial, but they are our untrustworthy and adversarial media firms, so mysteriously, they get a free pass. [2] Just imagine if the 'batshit right-wing conspiracy' half of the US media landscape were ran by the Kremlin (Or some other boogieman of the week), instead of a billionaire from Australia. Same content, different source, would drive people utterly livid.
alephnerd 4y ago
Depends on the "We" I personally was deep into digital privacy back in grade school and college when the Arab Spring began, but my own thinking shifted after learning about and working with people who blue teamed incidents like Operation Aurora and Titan Rain, as well as censorship of FB and Whatsapp in the PRC following unrest in East Turkestan in 2009.
localplume 4y ago
because some people understand geopolitics and the threat of foreign propaganda undermining the nations security? but sure, lets not ban it. lets not stop any foreign interference in our institutions and lets let our adversaries brain wash our population into destroying our country, but as long as we feel righteous that we have freedom right? thats all that matters? every time someone brings up a whataboutism as a rebuttle to that, "what about american social media companies?? they are much worse", they are doing exactly what China wants. China will gladly sit by and watch our destruction, prodding it along, as we eat each other. Most people are just oblivious to it and will deny it because of how much peace we've had, and how far we've gone without a near-peer enemy. at least with this bill we can stop the bleed. I was once a diehard defender of digital privacy and a small government, but over time I realized that the world really is not peaceful and countries exist out there that want to see our people dead. I understand it, I get it. But so many people are oblivious to foreign threats that they are willing to undermine their own country just so they can be on their high horse. It's not worth it.