4 ms·

> Who signs up for this? It's pretty clear from your comment that you've made up your mind and don't want an actual response, but for anyone who is interested,

> Who signs up for this? It's pretty clear from your comment that you've made up your mind and don't want an actual response, but for anyone who is interested, I can give a real example. I worked at an agency where the "leadership" was exclusively white, and the lowest paid roles were staffed by people who were mostly black. Licensed professionals were getting passed over for promotions in a way that left no explanation other than race. Staff complained, and management (to their credit) wanted to address the concerns. So where do they go? To talks like this, etc. You might think that racism doesn't exist and that there is no value in discussing how to fix it. For those of us living in the real world, these are useful resources.

kryogen1c 4y ago
> Staff complained, and management (to their credit) wanted to address the concerns. So where do they go? To talks like this, etc. Honestly this sounds apocryphal. What is the type of racist that accidentally doesn't promote any black people? Furthermore, what is the subset of those racists that simply stop once they get lectured about their obviously racist practices? If they're promoting the wrong people (ie the ones that don't do the job the best) they get fired.
- rayiner 4y ago
  Lots of stories like this. Read some federal employment discrimination cases—the judicial opinions give lots of detailed facts. Lots of not very bright racists in supervisory roles. That said, the anti-racism training classes actually make that sort of racism worse: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/17/opinion/dei-trainings-effective.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/17/opinion/dei-trainings-eff...
- desert_rue 4y ago
  Define “doing the job the best”. There could be barriers like credentials that some groups may have at a lower rate. A hiring manager sees one candidate with a college degree and another without, and chooses the one with, because that is what is “best”.
- fineIllregister 4y ago
  > What is the type of racist that accidentally doesn't promote any black people? Have you not heard the term "implicit bias"? > Furthermore, what is the subset of those racists that simply stop once they get lectured about their obviously racist practices? The ones operating in a high-turnover field trying to retain their threadbare staff. Part of it was also that there had been some new additions to the management team, and part of it was the national conversation around racism that just made people more aware of it and provided the conceptual framework to understand what was happening. > If they're promoting the wrong people (ie the ones that don't do the job the best) they get fired. I can't come up with a polite way to tell you how naive this is.
ouid 4y ago
Wait, you write: >Staff complained, and management (to their credit) wanted to address the concerns. So where do they go? To talks like this, etc. And then you write: >These are useful resources. Are you of the opinion that corporate training events matter? I was under the rather distinct impression that corporate training events are for shielding corporations from discrimination lawsuits.
- rdtsc 4y ago
  > Are you of the opinion that corporate training events matter? Always. There is money to be made organizing, and delivering that training. Then, the higher ups can confidently report they’ve solved a great deal of cultural and social ills at their company. They get to report it up, and also feel good about themselves. It’s overall a win-win situation.
- fineIllregister 4y ago
  > Are you of the opinion that corporate training events matter? Yes, they definitely matter. Corporate trainings provide social validation for ideas (good and bad). In my field, managers are herd animals, afraid to disrupt the status quo. Trainings can be a way to break out of group think ruts.
flippinburgers 4y ago
Religiosity at its finest! Nothing better than a presumptuous "you are guilty because of your skin color" assessment of a group of people.
- fineIllregister 4y ago
  I said that I observed people doing certain actions, and yes they are "guilty" of that. I never said anything about their skin color making them guilty. Pointing out discrimination is not discrimination.
joemazerino 4y ago
Its weird to have a half a worldview on employment status relations and the other half strictly race related. What specifically were the roles that were passed on?
- fineIllregister 4y ago
  It's not half and half. I live in a world where employment and racism both exist. What difference does the role make? If I said "lawyer" would that be different than if I said "accountant"?
  - joemazerino 4y ago
    It would be different if you said admin assistant or HR.

kryogen1c 4y ago

> Staff complained, and management (to their credit) wanted to address the concerns. So where do they go? To talks like this, etc. Honestly this sounds apocryphal. What is the type of racist that accidentally doesn't promote any black people? Furthermore, what is the subset of those racists that simply stop once they get lectured about their obviously racist practices? If they're promoting the wrong people (ie the ones that don't do the job the best) they get fired.

rayiner 4y ago
Lots of stories like this. Read some federal employment discrimination cases—the judicial opinions give lots of detailed facts. Lots of not very bright racists in supervisory roles. That said, the anti-racism training classes actually make that sort of racism worse: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/17/opinion/dei-trainings-effective.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/17/opinion/dei-trainings-eff...
desert_rue 4y ago
Define “doing the job the best”. There could be barriers like credentials that some groups may have at a lower rate. A hiring manager sees one candidate with a college degree and another without, and chooses the one with, because that is what is “best”.
fineIllregister 4y ago
> What is the type of racist that accidentally doesn't promote any black people? Have you not heard the term "implicit bias"? > Furthermore, what is the subset of those racists that simply stop once they get lectured about their obviously racist practices? The ones operating in a high-turnover field trying to retain their threadbare staff. Part of it was also that there had been some new additions to the management team, and part of it was the national conversation around racism that just made people more aware of it and provided the conceptual framework to understand what was happening. > If they're promoting the wrong people (ie the ones that don't do the job the best) they get fired. I can't come up with a polite way to tell you how naive this is.

ouid 4y ago

Wait, you write: >Staff complained, and management (to their credit) wanted to address the concerns. So where do they go? To talks like this, etc. And then you write: >These are useful resources. Are you of the opinion that corporate training events matter? I was under the rather distinct impression that corporate training events are for shielding corporations from discrimination lawsuits.

rdtsc 4y ago
> Are you of the opinion that corporate training events matter? Always. There is money to be made organizing, and delivering that training. Then, the higher ups can confidently report they’ve solved a great deal of cultural and social ills at their company. They get to report it up, and also feel good about themselves. It’s overall a win-win situation.
fineIllregister 4y ago
> Are you of the opinion that corporate training events matter? Yes, they definitely matter. Corporate trainings provide social validation for ideas (good and bad). In my field, managers are herd animals, afraid to disrupt the status quo. Trainings can be a way to break out of group think ruts.

flippinburgers 4y ago

Religiosity at its finest! Nothing better than a presumptuous "you are guilty because of your skin color" assessment of a group of people.

fineIllregister 4y ago
I said that I observed people doing certain actions, and yes they are "guilty" of that. I never said anything about their skin color making them guilty. Pointing out discrimination is not discrimination.

joemazerino 4y ago

Its weird to have a half a worldview on employment status relations and the other half strictly race related. What specifically were the roles that were passed on?

fineIllregister 4y ago
It's not half and half. I live in a world where employment and racism both exist. What difference does the role make? If I said "lawyer" would that be different than if I said "accountant"?
- joemazerino 4y ago
  It would be different if you said admin assistant or HR.