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> China has limited interest or means to harm me. Source? They are a totalitarian government that considers the US it's #1 enemy, and has its sights on a milit

> China has limited interest or means to harm me. Source? They are a totalitarian government that considers the US it's #1 enemy, and has its sights on a military invasion of a peaceful democratic nation and ally in a 2-5 year horizon.

JohnFen 4y ago
They do indeed. But none of that means that they care even a little bit about me, personally. Why would they? I can neither help nor hinder their efforts. Understand what I'm saying here -- I'm specifically talking about whether I'd prefer to be spied on by China or by corporations. If that's my choice, I'd prefer to be spied on by China because they don't care much about me, individually. But really, I'd prefer not to be spied on at all -- and that's my underlying point. When it comes to issues like TikTok, I'm not saying TikTok isn't a problem. I'm saying that the problem TikTok presents is not unique to them. If we are to address the problems -- and I think we should -- we should address it across the board, not just with a single company.
- yadaeno 4y ago
  The US does not live in an isloated vaccum where it's not affected by geopolitics. Your life will be impacted, personally when China decides to invade Taiwan. I don't want to be spied on by either government, but this point you are trying to make that China has 0 influence or means to impart change in American life is incorrect.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    > this point you are trying to make that China has 0 influence or means to impart change in American life is incorrect. That is most definitely not the point I was trying to make. I'm talking about data collection, not propaganda.
    - diabeticApe 4y ago
      Well if TikTok is obligated by law to cooperate with the military, its main value proposition to the PLA is probably going to be its repositories of data on the citizens of foreign nations (particularly the US and its allies) and you can be pretty sure the data collection efforts are not being used to recommend some tasty local dim sum restaurants. In other words its highly probable that the data collected is used to support its propoganda efforts abroad. Given the close knit nature of the public and private sector fusion in China it might be safe to assume they are one and the same thing. Maybe TikToks role is not limited to just propoganda purposes but thats just too easy and valuable of a use case for it not to be employed in that context. I know of a few people on opposite ends of the political spectrum that eat up content that makes caricatures out of the other side. Not that this problem is limited to TikTok but in thier case being obligated to serve as an extension of the communist government it seems to be a ripe opportunity for spreading division and uncertainty in the citizens of rival countries.
      - JohnFen 4y ago
        Of course. But I was talking specifically about China's ability and interest in harming me, personally, directly. I was not talking about China's ability to do societal harm.
  - Jochim 4y ago
    The way to prevent China from invading Taiwan was to foster a friendly relationship. The US has squandered what good will it had with China to the point that they and even India have aligned more closely to Russia as a consequence of the Ukraine conflict. The inability of the west to effectively put an end to Russian aggression in Ukraine only makes an invasion of Taiwan more likely.
    - mikrotikker 4y ago
      It's clear you know nothing or are being obtuse to spread an agenda. See: one China policy
      - Jochim 4y ago
        I don't think I've been obtuse whatsoever. The existence of the One China policy doesn't change the fact that since 2015, broader US policy has shifted from viewing China as a partner to a competitor[0]. That policy has been described as "a blueprint for a Cold War 2.0"[1] and that: > Any effort on the Biden team's part to improve relations (and China has indicated a strong desire to do so) would likely have the administration fending off charges of being soft on China. The results of this approach have been, among others: a trade war, a president repeating conspiracy theories that blame China for Coronavirus[2], and publicly accusing China of controlling the WHO[2]: > "I chose not to make a statement today," Mr Trump said on Monday about the event, while describing the body as "China-centric" and "a puppet of China". > He said the WHO had "gave us a lot of very bad advice, terrible advice" and were "wrong so much and always on the side of China". More recently we've heard American politicians, in a congressional hearing, repeatedly refer to China as their "enemy". Are we supposed to believe that doesn't indicate how far relations have cooled? Are we supposed to be shocked that China doesn't align with US interests on Russia when the US has been displaying open hostility? [0] https://theconversation.com/trump-took-a-sledgehammer-to-us-china-relations-this-wont-be-an-easy-fix-even-if-biden-wins-147098 https://theconversation.com/trump-took-a-sledgehammer-to-us-... [1] https://www.npr.org/2021/01/23/959683134/what-trumps-declassified-asia-strategy-may-mean-for-u-s-china-relations-under-bi https://www.npr.org/2021/01/23/959683134/what-trumps-declass... [2] https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trumps-chinese-virus-tweet-helped-lead-rise-racist/story?id=76530148 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trumps-chinese-virus-tweet-hel...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
taylodl 4y ago
Wrong. Taiwan is internationally recognized as being part of China. Heretofore the United States has had an official policy of 'strategic ambiguity' - play both sides. Pretend Taiwan is part of China when convenient and then pretend Taiwan is its own sovereign entity when convenient. You can thank Kissinger for that cowardly policy. Taiwan is not the Ukraine. For better or worse, I'll give Biden credit for picking a side, though I personally think he picked the wrong side. No. Let's call spades, spades. The Unite States is declaring war on China, not the other way around. Our policy with Taiwan is as stupid as if the EU recognized the Confederacy as not belonging to the United States. Once again the United States seeks war - and this coming from a U.S. Marine. Once again the United States will compromise its principles in its pursuit of war. Winston Churchill is credited with the quote, and I'm paraphrasing, "the United States can be relied upon to do the right thing, once it has exhausted all other possibilities." Here we go again, exhausting all those other possibilities.
- yadaeno 4y ago
  Winston Churchill, the man that went to war to stop the invasion of peaceful democratic countries by the nazis.

JohnFen 4y ago

They do indeed. But none of that means that they care even a little bit about me, personally. Why would they? I can neither help nor hinder their efforts. Understand what I'm saying here -- I'm specifically talking about whether I'd prefer to be spied on by China or by corporations. If that's my choice, I'd prefer to be spied on by China because they don't care much about me, individually. But really, I'd prefer not to be spied on at all -- and that's my underlying point. When it comes to issues like TikTok, I'm not saying TikTok isn't a problem. I'm saying that the problem TikTok presents is not unique to them. If we are to address the problems -- and I think we should -- we should address it across the board, not just with a single company.

yadaeno 4y ago
The US does not live in an isloated vaccum where it's not affected by geopolitics. Your life will be impacted, personally when China decides to invade Taiwan. I don't want to be spied on by either government, but this point you are trying to make that China has 0 influence or means to impart change in American life is incorrect.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > this point you are trying to make that China has 0 influence or means to impart change in American life is incorrect. That is most definitely not the point I was trying to make. I'm talking about data collection, not propaganda.
  - diabeticApe 4y ago
    Well if TikTok is obligated by law to cooperate with the military, its main value proposition to the PLA is probably going to be its repositories of data on the citizens of foreign nations (particularly the US and its allies) and you can be pretty sure the data collection efforts are not being used to recommend some tasty local dim sum restaurants. In other words its highly probable that the data collected is used to support its propoganda efforts abroad. Given the close knit nature of the public and private sector fusion in China it might be safe to assume they are one and the same thing. Maybe TikToks role is not limited to just propoganda purposes but thats just too easy and valuable of a use case for it not to be employed in that context. I know of a few people on opposite ends of the political spectrum that eat up content that makes caricatures out of the other side. Not that this problem is limited to TikTok but in thier case being obligated to serve as an extension of the communist government it seems to be a ripe opportunity for spreading division and uncertainty in the citizens of rival countries.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      Of course. But I was talking specifically about China's ability and interest in harming me, personally, directly. I was not talking about China's ability to do societal harm.
- Jochim 4y ago
  The way to prevent China from invading Taiwan was to foster a friendly relationship. The US has squandered what good will it had with China to the point that they and even India have aligned more closely to Russia as a consequence of the Ukraine conflict. The inability of the west to effectively put an end to Russian aggression in Ukraine only makes an invasion of Taiwan more likely.
  - mikrotikker 4y ago
    It's clear you know nothing or are being obtuse to spread an agenda. See: one China policy
    - Jochim 4y ago
      I don't think I've been obtuse whatsoever. The existence of the One China policy doesn't change the fact that since 2015, broader US policy has shifted from viewing China as a partner to a competitor[0]. That policy has been described as "a blueprint for a Cold War 2.0"[1] and that: > Any effort on the Biden team's part to improve relations (and China has indicated a strong desire to do so) would likely have the administration fending off charges of being soft on China. The results of this approach have been, among others: a trade war, a president repeating conspiracy theories that blame China for Coronavirus[2], and publicly accusing China of controlling the WHO[2]: > "I chose not to make a statement today," Mr Trump said on Monday about the event, while describing the body as "China-centric" and "a puppet of China". > He said the WHO had "gave us a lot of very bad advice, terrible advice" and were "wrong so much and always on the side of China". More recently we've heard American politicians, in a congressional hearing, repeatedly refer to China as their "enemy". Are we supposed to believe that doesn't indicate how far relations have cooled? Are we supposed to be shocked that China doesn't align with US interests on Russia when the US has been displaying open hostility? [0] https://theconversation.com/trump-took-a-sledgehammer-to-us-china-relations-this-wont-be-an-easy-fix-even-if-biden-wins-147098 https://theconversation.com/trump-took-a-sledgehammer-to-us-... [1] https://www.npr.org/2021/01/23/959683134/what-trumps-declassified-asia-strategy-may-mean-for-u-s-china-relations-under-bi https://www.npr.org/2021/01/23/959683134/what-trumps-declass... [2] https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trumps-chinese-virus-tweet-helped-lead-rise-racist/story?id=76530148 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trumps-chinese-virus-tweet-hel...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

taylodl 4y ago

Wrong. Taiwan is internationally recognized as being part of China. Heretofore the United States has had an official policy of 'strategic ambiguity' - play both sides. Pretend Taiwan is part of China when convenient and then pretend Taiwan is its own sovereign entity when convenient. You can thank Kissinger for that cowardly policy. Taiwan is not the Ukraine. For better or worse, I'll give Biden credit for picking a side, though I personally think he picked the wrong side. No. Let's call spades, spades. The Unite States is declaring war on China, not the other way around. Our policy with Taiwan is as stupid as if the EU recognized the Confederacy as not belonging to the United States. Once again the United States seeks war - and this coming from a U.S. Marine. Once again the United States will compromise its principles in its pursuit of war. Winston Churchill is credited with the quote, and I'm paraphrasing, "the United States can be relied upon to do the right thing, once it has exhausted all other possibilities." Here we go again, exhausting all those other possibilities.

yadaeno 4y ago
Winston Churchill, the man that went to war to stop the invasion of peaceful democratic countries by the nazis.