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> iOS version never have these issues The security argument for the App Store has never been stronger. > "But you can always download from the official App S

> iOS version never have these issues The security argument for the App Store has never been stronger. > "But you can always download from the official App Store!" you may say. But what if, say, Tik Tok announces they will from now on leave the App Store and available only via direct download? ... and nothing of value was lost.

kelnos 4y ago
> The security argument for the App Store has never been stronger. Perhaps, for many users this is true. But I don't need or want a nanny-company telling me what I can and can't install on my devices. (And yes, I do sideload apps -- including one I've written myself -- on my Android phone. So this isn't a theoretical "don't take my freedom" type concern.) >> But what if, say, Tik Tok announces they will from now on leave the App Store and available only via direct download? > ... and nothing of value was lost. Couldn't agree more with that sentiment. The problem is, though, that many people will still download it from TikTok's own website or app store. Security is a collective problem: even if I manage to avoid malware, a friend or colleague -- who may have email or chat or whatever history with me -- could get hacked, and that would still leak some of my data.
- gretch 4y ago
  > Perhaps, for many users this is true. But I don't need or want a nanny-company telling me what I can and can't install on my devices. 100% agree. Simply don’t buy an Apple phone.
  - faeranne 4y ago
    > Simply don't buy an Apple phone. We said that about the headphone jack. Look where we are now. Companies follow what works, and Apple continues to pioneer anti-consumer practices. You shouldn't buy Apple, but that's not gonna solve the problem. We gotta continue to show why this is bad so others don't chase the same goals.
- jxramos 4y ago
  this has been a recent consideration of mine I haven't fully explored or thought how to deal with yet. I now look at new friends with suspicion, especially those who are not tech savvy. I just gave out an email to a friend recently and he forwarded me an email list without BCC revealing all the recipients. I thought to myself, "oh boy somewhere down the road I'm going to be getting hacked email messages from one of these individuals."
- m3kw9 4y ago
  Why not just use android if you want to side load why force apple to allow side loading?
  - CharlesW 4y ago
    Because his freedom is more important than our security.
  - wiseowise 4y ago
    What kind of question is that?
  - faeranne 4y ago
    Because it isn't just Apple. Back when Apple removed the headphone jack, people constantly said "Well just use Samsung" or some other brand. Look at where we're at now. If Apple can beat the current pressure, other brands will follow. We're no longer in a theoretical space with this. Companies actively follow the trend, and by excusing it because "it's just Apple", will end badly.
    - m3kw9 4y ago
      How about the phone you got from carrier side load some pop up ads, unstoppable widgets on it
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    Because computer freedom should be a universal right.
- DyslexicAtheist 4y ago
  > Perhaps, for many users this is true. But I don't need or want a nanny-company telling me ... most will not go through the trouble of downloading apps directly and then installing them via developer mode. So while annoying to 0.0001 of Tech workers ... this would actually work quite well. And chances are that nobody asks us in our ivory Tech towers. It would work so well that within less than 2 years Chinese apps could disappear like Keyser Söze (which is even faster than Huawei disappeared from the US market ;)).
- duxup 4y ago
  I don’t want a nanny company. But I also want a trustworthy place to get apps….
  - waboremo 4y ago
    Yeah, like maybe we can get it directly from the source like we do it on Windows/Linux/MacOS already
    - duxup 4y ago
      I really don’t want to have to think about every phone app source. The spyware game on mobile is different than laptop or desktops.
      - UncleMeat 4y ago
        Spyware is much much less powerful on mobile than desktop. If you install malware on a desktop you are boned even without some OS exploit. On mobile there's still a lot an app can do, but it is far more constrained without some OS exploit.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    Here you go: https://f-droid.org/ https://f-droid.org/ Only works on Android though because Apple deems this type of non-Apple store a threat to their profits. Fortunately there are plenty of Android devices to be had on the market which can run a free AOSP-derived distribution like LineageOS. You'll get OTA updates until the cows come home or the developers move to another device, whichever comes first. The Galaxy SIII I'm using as a "dangerous work" phone - its screen got cracked when it fell of the barn roof for the second time while I was installing solar panels but it still works fine - still gets updates, it currently runs Android 11.
- Phemist 4y ago
  >(And yes, I do sideload apps -- including one I've written myself -- on my Android phone. So this isn't a theoretical "don't take my freedom" type concern.) Over the years I have built several very small, very specific apps, to do one thing and do it exactly the way I want it. The one that found most use (also among my friends) was my QR-code scanner, which was built in the days when the only QR-code scanners you could find were littered with ads, or paid for. It took me less than 2 hours to wrap the google barcode SDK in an app with one view that showed the camera preview and had one toggle button. The toggle button controlled whether a scanned QR-code would be immediately opened (through a generic intent), or whether it would be stored in the clipboard. Super easy, works really well and I still prefer over the much slicker looking paid apps. If I had an iPhone i would have surely never have built this app, as the hassle would be too much.
manuelabeledo 4y ago
> The security argument for the App Store has never been stronger. Is this really what we want? Because if so, what is the difference between a clamped down App Store with arbitrary rules, and what China does with their Great Firewall?
- simmerup 4y ago
  Every industry is regulated, it’s coming for software and it will help the common user from being exploited. Do you see the legislation for broadcasting and say, ‘What makes that different from how you have no free speech in China?!’ We’ve already had voluntary step backs in the idea of online liberalism with Twitter having to be heavily pressured to take down ISIS propaganda. Codifying those rules for everyone is inevitable.
- dec0dedab0de 4y ago
  what is the difference between a clamped down App Store with arbitrary rules, and what China does with their Great Firewall? With a locked down App store in America you have an option of using another device, or just using a computer, without any repercussion. With the Chinese great firewall working around it can lead to legal troubles, to put it lightly.
- raincole 4y ago
  ... you know you can buy an Android phone, if that's what you want, right? You can't get an ISP without Great Firewall in China. If you try to found such an ISP you'll be in jail.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    > you can buy an Android phone, if that's what you want That's not what I want. I want Apple hardware. With software of my choosing on it.
    - otterley 4y ago
      I want a pony!
andersa 4y ago
This makes no sense. It's an argument for proper security controls and permissions setup on the OS level, not an app store.

kelnos 4y ago

> The security argument for the App Store has never been stronger. Perhaps, for many users this is true. But I don't need or want a nanny-company telling me what I can and can't install on my devices. (And yes, I do sideload apps -- including one I've written myself -- on my Android phone. So this isn't a theoretical "don't take my freedom" type concern.) >> But what if, say, Tik Tok announces they will from now on leave the App Store and available only via direct download? > ... and nothing of value was lost. Couldn't agree more with that sentiment. The problem is, though, that many people will still download it from TikTok's own website or app store. Security is a collective problem: even if I manage to avoid malware, a friend or colleague -- who may have email or chat or whatever history with me -- could get hacked, and that would still leak some of my data.

gretch 4y ago
> Perhaps, for many users this is true. But I don't need or want a nanny-company telling me what I can and can't install on my devices. 100% agree. Simply don’t buy an Apple phone.
- faeranne 4y ago
  > Simply don't buy an Apple phone. We said that about the headphone jack. Look where we are now. Companies follow what works, and Apple continues to pioneer anti-consumer practices. You shouldn't buy Apple, but that's not gonna solve the problem. We gotta continue to show why this is bad so others don't chase the same goals.
jxramos 4y ago
this has been a recent consideration of mine I haven't fully explored or thought how to deal with yet. I now look at new friends with suspicion, especially those who are not tech savvy. I just gave out an email to a friend recently and he forwarded me an email list without BCC revealing all the recipients. I thought to myself, "oh boy somewhere down the road I'm going to be getting hacked email messages from one of these individuals."
m3kw9 4y ago
Why not just use android if you want to side load why force apple to allow side loading?
- CharlesW 4y ago
  Because his freedom is more important than our security.
- wiseowise 4y ago
  What kind of question is that?
- faeranne 4y ago
  Because it isn't just Apple. Back when Apple removed the headphone jack, people constantly said "Well just use Samsung" or some other brand. Look at where we're at now. If Apple can beat the current pressure, other brands will follow. We're no longer in a theoretical space with this. Companies actively follow the trend, and by excusing it because "it's just Apple", will end badly.
  - m3kw9 4y ago
    How about the phone you got from carrier side load some pop up ads, unstoppable widgets on it
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  Because computer freedom should be a universal right.
DyslexicAtheist 4y ago
> Perhaps, for many users this is true. But I don't need or want a nanny-company telling me ... most will not go through the trouble of downloading apps directly and then installing them via developer mode. So while annoying to 0.0001 of Tech workers ... this would actually work quite well. And chances are that nobody asks us in our ivory Tech towers. It would work so well that within less than 2 years Chinese apps could disappear like Keyser Söze (which is even faster than Huawei disappeared from the US market ;)).
duxup 4y ago
I don’t want a nanny company. But I also want a trustworthy place to get apps….
- waboremo 4y ago
  Yeah, like maybe we can get it directly from the source like we do it on Windows/Linux/MacOS already
  - duxup 4y ago
    I really don’t want to have to think about every phone app source. The spyware game on mobile is different than laptop or desktops.
    - UncleMeat 4y ago
      Spyware is much much less powerful on mobile than desktop. If you install malware on a desktop you are boned even without some OS exploit. On mobile there's still a lot an app can do, but it is far more constrained without some OS exploit.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  Here you go: https://f-droid.org/ https://f-droid.org/ Only works on Android though because Apple deems this type of non-Apple store a threat to their profits. Fortunately there are plenty of Android devices to be had on the market which can run a free AOSP-derived distribution like LineageOS. You'll get OTA updates until the cows come home or the developers move to another device, whichever comes first. The Galaxy SIII I'm using as a "dangerous work" phone - its screen got cracked when it fell of the barn roof for the second time while I was installing solar panels but it still works fine - still gets updates, it currently runs Android 11.
Phemist 4y ago
>(And yes, I do sideload apps -- including one I've written myself -- on my Android phone. So this isn't a theoretical "don't take my freedom" type concern.) Over the years I have built several very small, very specific apps, to do one thing and do it exactly the way I want it. The one that found most use (also among my friends) was my QR-code scanner, which was built in the days when the only QR-code scanners you could find were littered with ads, or paid for. It took me less than 2 hours to wrap the google barcode SDK in an app with one view that showed the camera preview and had one toggle button. The toggle button controlled whether a scanned QR-code would be immediately opened (through a generic intent), or whether it would be stored in the clipboard. Super easy, works really well and I still prefer over the much slicker looking paid apps. If I had an iPhone i would have surely never have built this app, as the hassle would be too much.

manuelabeledo 4y ago

> The security argument for the App Store has never been stronger. Is this really what we want? Because if so, what is the difference between a clamped down App Store with arbitrary rules, and what China does with their Great Firewall?

simmerup 4y ago
Every industry is regulated, it’s coming for software and it will help the common user from being exploited. Do you see the legislation for broadcasting and say, ‘What makes that different from how you have no free speech in China?!’ We’ve already had voluntary step backs in the idea of online liberalism with Twitter having to be heavily pressured to take down ISIS propaganda. Codifying those rules for everyone is inevitable.
dec0dedab0de 4y ago
what is the difference between a clamped down App Store with arbitrary rules, and what China does with their Great Firewall? With a locked down App store in America you have an option of using another device, or just using a computer, without any repercussion. With the Chinese great firewall working around it can lead to legal troubles, to put it lightly.
raincole 4y ago
... you know you can buy an Android phone, if that's what you want, right? You can't get an ISP without Great Firewall in China. If you try to found such an ISP you'll be in jail.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > you can buy an Android phone, if that's what you want That's not what I want. I want Apple hardware. With software of my choosing on it.
  - otterley 4y ago
    I want a pony!

andersa 4y ago

This makes no sense. It's an argument for proper security controls and permissions setup on the OS level, not an app store.