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> Maybe they should think about getting interested people on a citizenship path One thing you'll find out is that the EU member states (along with Canada, Aust

> Maybe they should think about getting interested people on a citizenship path One thing you'll find out is that the EU member states (along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) are really not very friendly or welcoming in terms of "path to citizenship". One thing I'd like to see actually is open immigration and potentially more free trade between the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. I'd add Ireland but I think EU status would be a problem.

ygjb 4y ago
I don't know about other countries, but immigration targets in Canada are trending towards attracting 500,000 immigrants per year by 2025. Just because we have alot of openings doesn't mean it's easy though... there are several paths, and most of them are designed to favour folks who will integrate well socially and economically (and that doesn't just mean rich white folks, it means more along the lines of skilled labour and the means to sustain your family while they get settled).
School-Cotton 4y ago
It is way easier to get a work visa (and later citizenship) in any of the countries you named than it is in the US.
robocat 4y ago
> along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) are really not very friendly or welcoming in terms of "path to citizenship". About 30% of New Zealand and Australia’s populations are immigrants. I don’t think we could let many more in! As a comparison, the US is about 15% population of immigrants - and look at the stink over there about there being too many! The places with more immigrants than NZ/Oz by percentage are mostly either small island populations, or Arab states (where you are not actually an immigrant, since you don’t have citizenship rights, and slave labour conditions are rife). One resulting issue is that some major parts of the NZ/Oz housing markets are already some of the most unaffordable in the world (think San Franscisco, but earning less so even less affordable)! The five most expensive cities in the world by unaffordability are Hong Kong, Vancouver, Sydney, Auckland, Toronto : e.g. Sydney: average monthly income of $6,100 with median house price of $1.4 million. Auckland median house price is $1.1 million, whereas the average individual monthly income is $4,269. We have the land, we just need to build a lot of houses to keep up.
- ericmay 4y ago
  Of that 30% what percentage have obtained citizenship? How are you defining immigrants?
  - robocat 4y ago
    I’m not sure. In 2018, 36000 people gained citizenship, and the population was about 5 million. Hard to say how the numbers stack up as it is an integral over lifetimes and some people won’t stay. Also some people will just obtain residency and stick with that. I don’t think seasonal workers would be classified as immigrants. https://www.dia.govt.nz/Services-Citizenship-Citizenship-Statistics https://www.dia.govt.nz/Services-Citizenship-Citizenship-Sta...
    - ericmay 4y ago
      Thanks. And certainly we can dive into a lot of the factors for items like “decided to not stay” etc.
  - nl 4y ago
    In Australia, 29.1% of residents (ie, citizens or permanent residents) were born overseas[1] in 2021 (down from 29.8% in 2020 due to COVID meaning less new permanent residents). Net migration was 171,000 in 2021-22[2] and there were 167,000 newly conferred citizens (not counting native births)[3]. Top 5 countries of birth for Australian citizens born overseas were: England, China, India, New Zealand, Philippines. Top 5 new citizen countries of birth were: India, UK, Philippines, NZ, Pakistan. [1] https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/australias-population-country-birth/latest-release https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/australi... [2] https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/net-overseas-migration-recovers-171000-2021-22 https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/net-overs... [3] https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-statistics/statistics/citizenship-statistics https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-statistics/stati...
    - ericmay 4y ago
      Are pathways to citizenship exactly the same for the UK and New Zealand as they are for other countries? > In Australia, 29.1% of residents (ie, citizens or permanent residents) Being a citizen is not the same as being a permanent resident.
heffer 4y ago
The path from Permanent Resident to Citizen in Canada is pretty straightforward in my eyes and most Permanent Residents eventually do become Citizens [0]. Given that there are many pathways available for people to immigrate to Canada and Canada also looking to increase immigration in the coming years I am not sure what you mean by "not friendly or welcoming". Are you referring to the fact that there is a selection process in place and not everyone may qualify due to it? [0]: https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/as-sa/98-200-X/2021008/98-200-X2021008-eng.cfm https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/as-sa/98...
- _pigpen__ 4y ago
  I do admire Canada’s open mindedness. Anyone who completes an undergraduate degree in a Canadian university is eligible to apply for a work visa which rapidly leads to PR status. And, that converts to citizenship pretty quickly.
eps 4y ago
Canada grants citizenship after 3 years of residency. Downright hostile attitude towards "path to the citizenship" if you ask me.
- ericmay 4y ago
  Sure, just get residency first ;-)

ygjb 4y ago

I don't know about other countries, but immigration targets in Canada are trending towards attracting 500,000 immigrants per year by 2025. Just because we have alot of openings doesn't mean it's easy though... there are several paths, and most of them are designed to favour folks who will integrate well socially and economically (and that doesn't just mean rich white folks, it means more along the lines of skilled labour and the means to sustain your family while they get settled).

School-Cotton 4y ago

It is way easier to get a work visa (and later citizenship) in any of the countries you named than it is in the US.

robocat 4y ago

> along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) are really not very friendly or welcoming in terms of "path to citizenship". About 30% of New Zealand and Australia’s populations are immigrants. I don’t think we could let many more in! As a comparison, the US is about 15% population of immigrants - and look at the stink over there about there being too many! The places with more immigrants than NZ/Oz by percentage are mostly either small island populations, or Arab states (where you are not actually an immigrant, since you don’t have citizenship rights, and slave labour conditions are rife). One resulting issue is that some major parts of the NZ/Oz housing markets are already some of the most unaffordable in the world (think San Franscisco, but earning less so even less affordable)! The five most expensive cities in the world by unaffordability are Hong Kong, Vancouver, Sydney, Auckland, Toronto : e.g. Sydney: average monthly income of $6,100 with median house price of $1.4 million. Auckland median house price is $1.1 million, whereas the average individual monthly income is $4,269. We have the land, we just need to build a lot of houses to keep up.

ericmay 4y ago
Of that 30% what percentage have obtained citizenship? How are you defining immigrants?
- robocat 4y ago
  I’m not sure. In 2018, 36000 people gained citizenship, and the population was about 5 million. Hard to say how the numbers stack up as it is an integral over lifetimes and some people won’t stay. Also some people will just obtain residency and stick with that. I don’t think seasonal workers would be classified as immigrants. https://www.dia.govt.nz/Services-Citizenship-Citizenship-Statistics https://www.dia.govt.nz/Services-Citizenship-Citizenship-Sta...
  - ericmay 4y ago
    Thanks. And certainly we can dive into a lot of the factors for items like “decided to not stay” etc.
- nl 4y ago
  In Australia, 29.1% of residents (ie, citizens or permanent residents) were born overseas[1] in 2021 (down from 29.8% in 2020 due to COVID meaning less new permanent residents). Net migration was 171,000 in 2021-22[2] and there were 167,000 newly conferred citizens (not counting native births)[3]. Top 5 countries of birth for Australian citizens born overseas were: England, China, India, New Zealand, Philippines. Top 5 new citizen countries of birth were: India, UK, Philippines, NZ, Pakistan. [1] https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/australias-population-country-birth/latest-release https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/australi... [2] https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/net-overseas-migration-recovers-171000-2021-22 https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/net-overs... [3] https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-statistics/statistics/citizenship-statistics https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-statistics/stati...
  - ericmay 4y ago
    Are pathways to citizenship exactly the same for the UK and New Zealand as they are for other countries? > In Australia, 29.1% of residents (ie, citizens or permanent residents) Being a citizen is not the same as being a permanent resident.

heffer 4y ago

The path from Permanent Resident to Citizen in Canada is pretty straightforward in my eyes and most Permanent Residents eventually do become Citizens [0]. Given that there are many pathways available for people to immigrate to Canada and Canada also looking to increase immigration in the coming years I am not sure what you mean by "not friendly or welcoming". Are you referring to the fact that there is a selection process in place and not everyone may qualify due to it? [0]: https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/as-sa/98-200-X/2021008/98-200-X2021008-eng.cfm https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/as-sa/98...

_pigpen__ 4y ago
I do admire Canada’s open mindedness. Anyone who completes an undergraduate degree in a Canadian university is eligible to apply for a work visa which rapidly leads to PR status. And, that converts to citizenship pretty quickly.

eps 4y ago

Canada grants citizenship after 3 years of residency. Downright hostile attitude towards "path to the citizenship" if you ask me.

ericmay 4y ago
Sure, just get residency first ;-)