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Come on. I agree that banning TikTok on the grounds of its algorithm being controlled by China is dubious. After all, it is content, it is information, and it

Come on. I agree that banning TikTok on the grounds of its algorithm being controlled by China is dubious. After all, it is content, it is information, and it is up to an open society to call out the fact that social media is trash, that Chinese social media is anti-American disinformation poison. However, it is reasonable to believe tiktok's recommendations are crafted to harm American intellect, prey on vanity to reward shallow behavior, and gather large scale behavioral and physical activity (site tracking, habits, physical location, items in homes, etc) for the purposes of the Chinese government. If it is recognized as a spy tool of a hostile government, why permit it?

epups 4y ago
Would you say the same of Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, and defend the right of the rest if the world to ban them?
- unethical_ban 4y ago
  As suspicious as the US federal government is, I don't think what those companies do is as tightly coupled with the government as TikTok and China. That said, I'm not sure I would lament a body blow to social media specifically. Let me put the questions to you directly: Do you think the Chinese government is generally hostile to the long term success of Western liberalism? Do you think the Chinese government has meaningful influence on the behavior of TikTok or its recommendation engine? Do you think TikTok data on its hundreds of millions of users is available for general analysis to the Chinese government?
  - epups 4y ago
    >As suspicious as the US federal government is, I don't think what those companies do is as tightly coupled with the government as TikTok and China. They have backdoors to all major tech companies, they actively try to control discourse in social media and they just bailed out their tech sector. If that's not being tightly coupled, I don't know what is. >Do you think the Chinese government is generally hostile to the long term success of Western liberalism? No >Do you think the Chinese government has meaningful influence on the behavior of TikTok or its recommendation engine? Probably but no concrete evidence exists >Do you think TikTok data on its hundreds of millions of users is available for general analysis to the Chinese government? To the same extent our data is available to the US and its allies, yes. But China cannot do much with my data, my government can.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    Yes, yes, yes, but I will defend to the death for their right to say it! Free speech means accepting speech one doesn't want to hear, especially if it leads to outcomes one doesn't desire.
- flappyeagle 4y ago
  Yes, the rest of the world can ban whatever they want in their sovereign domain. See China and Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

epups 4y ago

Would you say the same of Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, and defend the right of the rest if the world to ban them?

unethical_ban 4y ago
As suspicious as the US federal government is, I don't think what those companies do is as tightly coupled with the government as TikTok and China. That said, I'm not sure I would lament a body blow to social media specifically. Let me put the questions to you directly: Do you think the Chinese government is generally hostile to the long term success of Western liberalism? Do you think the Chinese government has meaningful influence on the behavior of TikTok or its recommendation engine? Do you think TikTok data on its hundreds of millions of users is available for general analysis to the Chinese government?
- epups 4y ago
  >As suspicious as the US federal government is, I don't think what those companies do is as tightly coupled with the government as TikTok and China. They have backdoors to all major tech companies, they actively try to control discourse in social media and they just bailed out their tech sector. If that's not being tightly coupled, I don't know what is. >Do you think the Chinese government is generally hostile to the long term success of Western liberalism? No >Do you think the Chinese government has meaningful influence on the behavior of TikTok or its recommendation engine? Probably but no concrete evidence exists >Do you think TikTok data on its hundreds of millions of users is available for general analysis to the Chinese government? To the same extent our data is available to the US and its allies, yes. But China cannot do much with my data, my government can.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  Yes, yes, yes, but I will defend to the death for their right to say it! Free speech means accepting speech one doesn't want to hear, especially if it leads to outcomes one doesn't desire.
flappyeagle 4y ago
Yes, the rest of the world can ban whatever they want in their sovereign domain. See China and Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.