3 ms·

You’re right, it is an opinion. There is probably no easy way to substantiate the statement “any claims that unions make this process harder is a lie designed b

You’re right, it is an opinion. There is probably no easy way to substantiate the statement “any claims that unions make this process harder is a lie designed by a union busting consulting firm”. On the other hand, the entire job of a union busting consulting firm is to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt about unions. The claim that unions would take actions, or fail to take actions, to make it less likely for their members to receive a pay raise, is the kind of claim that a union busting consulting firm would likely make. This is Public Relations 101.

edgyquant 4y ago
And the whole point of a union bureaucracy is to justify its existence and paint all employers as great villains. Your biased here. It’s not this black and white.
- xracy 4y ago
  coming off of close to 50 years of anti-union sentiment as well as fewer unions and more union busting. We're as close to black and white as we can get in any discussion about current events. Is the claim defendable, probably not, but the NLRB just found that Starbucks is trying to discourage stores from unionizing (which sounds like something they would do...) So I'm much more inclined to believe they're being unhelpful in union negotiations than a newly minted union is.
  - vuln 4y ago
    > newly minted union The union does not appear to be new at least to me. It seems like the StarBucks union is apart of a larger organization of unions. So this isn’t a _new_ union or a union _moving fast and breaking things_ it’s a conglomerate of other much veteran unions. > Starbucks Workers United is a national collective of Starbucks Partners who help organize workplaces alongside Workers United Upstate, a union with members across many industries, including the coffee industry. https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2022/12/19/starbucks-union-why-are-workers-unionizing-now-what-do-unions-really-mean-to-investors/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2022/12/19/starbucks-union-...
    - xracy 4y ago
      > The current Starbucks unionization movement began in Buffalo, New York when a store voted to unionize in late 2021. Less than 2 years from your own article. That counts as newly minted. Also how many of those locations have a contract at this point? That's the bigger and more relevant piece of this. The fact that other unions are helping them out, doesn't mean that those other unions have negotiated with Starbucks. That's it's own thing that makes every union negotiation different.
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    > We're as close to black and white as we can get in any discussion about current events. Nope, you’re just pro union so you don’t see it as anything but black and white.
    - xracy 4y ago
      I wrote out a really thoughtful response to this, but I will instead just say the opposite of you since that's as much consideration as you seem to have put into your response. Nope, you're just anti union so you don't see nuance against your worldview, you just trust what corporations tell you. Wow, you're sooo edgy.
    - xracy 4y ago
      Oh, wait, sorry, CEO of starbucks says he's not anti-union[1]. I guess he isn't anti-union. In other news wolf says he doesn't prey on sheep. [1] https://www.npr.org/2023/03/29/1166277326/starbucks-bernie-sanders-howard-schultz-union-hearing https://www.npr.org/2023/03/29/1166277326/starbucks-bernie-s...

edgyquant 4y ago

And the whole point of a union bureaucracy is to justify its existence and paint all employers as great villains. Your biased here. It’s not this black and white.

xracy 4y ago
coming off of close to 50 years of anti-union sentiment as well as fewer unions and more union busting. We're as close to black and white as we can get in any discussion about current events. Is the claim defendable, probably not, but the NLRB just found that Starbucks is trying to discourage stores from unionizing (which sounds like something they would do...) So I'm much more inclined to believe they're being unhelpful in union negotiations than a newly minted union is.
- vuln 4y ago
  > newly minted union The union does not appear to be new at least to me. It seems like the StarBucks union is apart of a larger organization of unions. So this isn’t a _new_ union or a union _moving fast and breaking things_ it’s a conglomerate of other much veteran unions. > Starbucks Workers United is a national collective of Starbucks Partners who help organize workplaces alongside Workers United Upstate, a union with members across many industries, including the coffee industry. https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2022/12/19/starbucks-union-why-are-workers-unionizing-now-what-do-unions-really-mean-to-investors/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2022/12/19/starbucks-union-...
  - xracy 4y ago
    > The current Starbucks unionization movement began in Buffalo, New York when a store voted to unionize in late 2021. Less than 2 years from your own article. That counts as newly minted. Also how many of those locations have a contract at this point? That's the bigger and more relevant piece of this. The fact that other unions are helping them out, doesn't mean that those other unions have negotiated with Starbucks. That's it's own thing that makes every union negotiation different.
- edgyquant 4y ago
  > We're as close to black and white as we can get in any discussion about current events. Nope, you’re just pro union so you don’t see it as anything but black and white.
  - xracy 4y ago
    I wrote out a really thoughtful response to this, but I will instead just say the opposite of you since that's as much consideration as you seem to have put into your response. Nope, you're just anti union so you don't see nuance against your worldview, you just trust what corporations tell you. Wow, you're sooo edgy.
  - xracy 4y ago
    Oh, wait, sorry, CEO of starbucks says he's not anti-union[1]. I guess he isn't anti-union. In other news wolf says he doesn't prey on sheep. [1] https://www.npr.org/2023/03/29/1166277326/starbucks-bernie-sanders-howard-schultz-union-hearing https://www.npr.org/2023/03/29/1166277326/starbucks-bernie-s...