4 ms·

Steam will drop support for Windows 7 and Windows 8 on January 1, 2024

54 points by JohnTHaller 4y ago

sylware 4y ago
... but the client is still 32bits and on elf/linux it even statically load opengl instead of libdl-ing its system deps. And since win64 does not change, I wonder what things are on win10 and not win[78]. I guess this is about the thing which does not exist in the first place, a fantasy: "computer security". ahem... at least we are getting a cs2 with a clean vulkan3D engine for free.
- smt88 4y ago
  Computer security isn't a fantasy to anyone who isn't an absolutist. There is a spectrum of security.
  - hulitu 4y ago
    Yes there is a spectrum. But Win 10 and 11 is not there.
    - smt88 4y ago
      Who's claiming that those are 100% secure? They're among the most secure OS's available because they're attacked incessantly by sophisticated actors. When MS drops support for 7/8, they'll be far more secure, which is what we're talking about here.
      - satoshiiii 4y ago
        [flagged]
        hacym 4y ago
        This thought progress is unproductive at best.
        satoshiiii 4y ago
        What thought process? Here are some facts to back it up: https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html
        smt88 4y ago
        You need to research the difference between "facts" and "opinions"
        anthk 4y ago
        Why the definition of "spyware" since the 90's and 2000's, something I lived, I can assure Windows 10 it's spyware the same way Active X and WMP were.
        satoshiiii 4y ago
        And it seems you also need to learn how to open links because I am pretty sure those does not lead to "opinions." EDIT: https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html#surveillance https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html#su...
      - sylware 4y ago
        wrong wording: less "insecure". Anybody telling you otherwise is trying to sell you something as "computer security" does not exist, it is a fantasy. And it is not some randoms on HN who will erase my decades of experience. msft APIs have no pertinent reason to change whatever the windows version, and it has been the case yearse. This is very certainly more related to some brutal planned obsolescence supporting their worldwide scamming "business model".
lockhouse 4y ago
Windows 10 and 11 count for over 95% of Steam users on Windows. Supporting older versions isn’t worth the effort for them anymore.
- AustinDev 4y ago
  I also imagine that it's harder for VAC to detect cheats in those relatively old operating systems. I know for some hacks you have to run certain versions of windows with known vulnerabilities to evade detection.
  - ShowalkKama 4y ago
    no you don't, vac is extremely bad and doesn't require a lot of effort to bypass
- brute 4y ago
  98% to be precise. But still, with 132 million active monthly users, that leaves 2.4 million people who now can't access their games. So I disagree with that being "not worth the effort".
  - wilg 4y ago
    “can’t” is too strong, they just have to upgrade or switch their OS
  - ProllyInfamous 4y ago
    I am one of us 2.4mGards. Actually just breathed a sigh of relief, as this will allow me to finally dispossess myself of my long-owned Core2Duo GTA-IV rig that I hadn't been able to let go of, just hours ago. You have been a great machine, but it's time for us to move along.
    - nulltxt 4y ago
      I mean there's always linux instead of getting rid of it
mrpippy 4y ago
Blaming Chromium/CEF for this seems a bit disingenuous. Steam currently uses an ancient version of CEF (85.something), but they could update to CEF 110 (almost the latest) and still keep support for Win7/8/8.1.
snickerbockers 4y ago
There are some games on steam that don't work on newer windows versions; does this mean that steam will be selling games that are unplayable under any circumstances?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  They'll likely be playable under Proton, but of course that won't be available for Windows users, somewhat ironically.
  - agildehaus 4y ago
    Sounds like they should make that happen.
  - faeranne 4y ago
    A surprising amount of truth to this. of my 600+ library, about 30 of them won't run under windows 10, but run fine under Proton. Multiple hacks/mods/compatibility tools have done nothing to make it work, but for all but 4, Proton "just works".
- dharmab 4y ago
  This is already the case. People are generally buying those games for the licenses and then using mods. For example, you can buy Falcon 4.0 on Steam, but the only reason to do so is to legally play "Falcon BMS", an otherwise standalone free game using Falcon 4.0 assets and code.
Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
I guess it's good the program won't autoupdate and lobotomize itself in the process. https://archive.is/IisBk https://archive.is/IisBk
rkagerer 4y ago
Will you simply get pegged to the last supported version (like Chrome does), or will it show some stupid warning and not let you play the games you purchased?
- rpigab 4y ago
  It's also possible that Win7/8 users won't even notice and continue to use it, and receive updates. I don't think the Steam client has separate builds for different Windows versions, dropping support can mean many things. - Blocking access from Win7/8 entirely, for any installed version of the client on Win7/8. - Staying on last client version which may or may not continue to work with the server. - Losing the ability to receive oncall customer support if the software is not working properly, but continuing to get updates that may or may not work with your old system, and maybe slowly losing features, including potential security issues. I'm still using my Google Pixel 3 phone, Google has dropped support in oct 22, so no new Android versions or security updates for me, but it runs fine and I'm not planning to replace it anytime soon. If it breaks or leaks my data, I won't complain to anyone. Of course, client-server software is an entirely different thing, but you get the idea. End of support notices are always incredibly vague, because the software vendors don't want to make customers who won't upgrade their devices angry without a valid reason, so often they won't cut access if there's no big security issue, but they also don't want to tell everyone that it's still probably ok to continue using the old versions, because moving on brings performance improvements which are good for users and maintaining old software becomes increasingly difficult over time.
IYasha 4y ago
30 years ago: I copied games from FDD for speed 20 years ago: I copied games from CD and used No-CD patches for speed and reliability 10 years ago: I used No-Steam patches to play offline. 0 years ago: I used No-Steam patches to play on Windows 7. The progress.

54 points by JohnTHaller 4y ago

... but the client is still 32bits and on elf/linux it even statically load opengl instead of libdl-ing its system deps. And since win64 does not change, I wonder what things are on win10 and not win[78]. I guess this is about the thing which does not exist in the first place, a fantasy: "computer security". ahem... at least we are getting a cs2 with a clean vulkan3D engine for free.

smt88 4y ago
Computer security isn't a fantasy to anyone who isn't an absolutist. There is a spectrum of security.
- hulitu 4y ago
  Yes there is a spectrum. But Win 10 and 11 is not there.
  - smt88 4y ago
    Who's claiming that those are 100% secure? They're among the most secure OS's available because they're attacked incessantly by sophisticated actors. When MS drops support for 7/8, they'll be far more secure, which is what we're talking about here.
    - satoshiiii 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - hacym 4y ago
        This thought progress is unproductive at best.
        satoshiiii 4y ago
        What thought process? Here are some facts to back it up: https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html
        smt88 4y ago
        You need to research the difference between "facts" and "opinions"
        anthk 4y ago
        Why the definition of "spyware" since the 90's and 2000's, something I lived, I can assure Windows 10 it's spyware the same way Active X and WMP were.
        satoshiiii 4y ago
        And it seems you also need to learn how to open links because I am pretty sure those does not lead to "opinions." EDIT: https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html#surveillance https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html#su...
    - sylware 4y ago
      wrong wording: less "insecure". Anybody telling you otherwise is trying to sell you something as "computer security" does not exist, it is a fantasy. And it is not some randoms on HN who will erase my decades of experience. msft APIs have no pertinent reason to change whatever the windows version, and it has been the case yearse. This is very certainly more related to some brutal planned obsolescence supporting their worldwide scamming "business model".

lockhouse 4y ago

Windows 10 and 11 count for over 95% of Steam users on Windows. Supporting older versions isn’t worth the effort for them anymore.

AustinDev 4y ago
I also imagine that it's harder for VAC to detect cheats in those relatively old operating systems. I know for some hacks you have to run certain versions of windows with known vulnerabilities to evade detection.
- ShowalkKama 4y ago
  no you don't, vac is extremely bad and doesn't require a lot of effort to bypass
brute 4y ago
98% to be precise. But still, with 132 million active monthly users, that leaves 2.4 million people who now can't access their games. So I disagree with that being "not worth the effort".
- wilg 4y ago
  “can’t” is too strong, they just have to upgrade or switch their OS
- ProllyInfamous 4y ago
  I am one of us 2.4mGards. Actually just breathed a sigh of relief, as this will allow me to finally dispossess myself of my long-owned Core2Duo GTA-IV rig that I hadn't been able to let go of, just hours ago. You have been a great machine, but it's time for us to move along.
  - nulltxt 4y ago
    I mean there's always linux instead of getting rid of it

mrpippy 4y ago

Blaming Chromium/CEF for this seems a bit disingenuous. Steam currently uses an ancient version of CEF (85.something), but they could update to CEF 110 (almost the latest) and still keep support for Win7/8/8.1.

snickerbockers 4y ago

There are some games on steam that don't work on newer windows versions; does this mean that steam will be selling games that are unplayable under any circumstances?

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
They'll likely be playable under Proton, but of course that won't be available for Windows users, somewhat ironically.
- agildehaus 4y ago
  Sounds like they should make that happen.
- faeranne 4y ago
  A surprising amount of truth to this. of my 600+ library, about 30 of them won't run under windows 10, but run fine under Proton. Multiple hacks/mods/compatibility tools have done nothing to make it work, but for all but 4, Proton "just works".
dharmab 4y ago
This is already the case. People are generally buying those games for the licenses and then using mods. For example, you can buy Falcon 4.0 on Steam, but the only reason to do so is to legally play "Falcon BMS", an otherwise standalone free game using Falcon 4.0 assets and code.

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago

I guess it's good the program won't autoupdate and lobotomize itself in the process. https://archive.is/IisBk https://archive.is/IisBk

rkagerer 4y ago

Will you simply get pegged to the last supported version (like Chrome does), or will it show some stupid warning and not let you play the games you purchased?

rpigab 4y ago
It's also possible that Win7/8 users won't even notice and continue to use it, and receive updates. I don't think the Steam client has separate builds for different Windows versions, dropping support can mean many things. - Blocking access from Win7/8 entirely, for any installed version of the client on Win7/8. - Staying on last client version which may or may not continue to work with the server. - Losing the ability to receive oncall customer support if the software is not working properly, but continuing to get updates that may or may not work with your old system, and maybe slowly losing features, including potential security issues. I'm still using my Google Pixel 3 phone, Google has dropped support in oct 22, so no new Android versions or security updates for me, but it runs fine and I'm not planning to replace it anytime soon. If it breaks or leaks my data, I won't complain to anyone. Of course, client-server software is an entirely different thing, but you get the idea. End of support notices are always incredibly vague, because the software vendors don't want to make customers who won't upgrade their devices angry without a valid reason, so often they won't cut access if there's no big security issue, but they also don't want to tell everyone that it's still probably ok to continue using the old versions, because moving on brings performance improvements which are good for users and maintaining old software becomes increasingly difficult over time.

IYasha 4y ago

30 years ago: I copied games from FDD for speed 20 years ago: I copied games from CD and used No-CD patches for speed and reliability 10 years ago: I used No-Steam patches to play offline. 0 years ago: I used No-Steam patches to play on Windows 7. The progress.