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> 2. How come Italy can dictate what foreign vessels (Banksys ship is registered in German as per the article) do in international waters? The answer is basica

by AS37 4y ago

> 2. How come Italy can dictate what foreign vessels (Banksys ship is registered in German as per the article) do in international waters? The answer is basically they can because they can. The ship isn't picking people up and delivering them to Germany, they're picking people up and delivering them to Italy. When the ship is docked in Italy it is at the whim of the Italian authorities.

buraktamturk 4y ago
Legally speaking, they can't. It doesn't matter where the ship will be docking. Anything otherwise is a crime against humanity. International laws and EU laws are bigger than any Italian authority and Italian laws that has been ever established.
- fnmron 4y ago
  Not really, italian law rules in italy, that's out of question.
  - buraktamturk 4y ago
    Not at all. Laws has to be compatible with universal laws, international treaties/laws such as UN Geneva Convention and for Italy also the EU laws. Along many other conditions such as arbitrariness.
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > Not at all. Laws has to be compatible with universal laws, international treaties/laws such as UN Geneva Convention and for Italy also the EU laws. Along many other conditions such as arbitrariness. No they don't. What authority enforces that? If not other country or international body has the willingness and capability to go to war with Italy in order to enforce its opinions, and if no country is willing to shun Italy over this or Italy is fine with the shunning, then Italy can have whatever laws it likes.
      - buraktamturk 4y ago
        They do. I do not have to convince you that 2+2=4. If you have read recent European Human Rights Court decisions, you can clearly see what kind of domestic laws is in violation of law. (Yes, I mean some domestic laws are in violation of laws)
        tablespoon 4y ago
        > They do. I do not have to convince you that 2+2=4. Yeah, because you're trying to convince me that 2+2=5. > If you have read recent European Human Rights Court decisions, you can clearly see what kind of domestic laws is in violation of law. (Yes, I mean some domestic laws are in violation of laws) And what's that court going to do to make Italy comply? For instance: I can claim until I'm blue in the face that everyone has to comply with some "universal law" that I declare, and I can issue statements to that effect, but in reality that's totally meaningless because I lack the power to make others follow me. There are a lot of international bodies that makes similar claims, and similarly lack the power. Maybe those bodies persuaded you, but that doesn't matter to the unpersuaded. International relations is literally anarchy. Sometimes there's cooperation that looks like law, and rhetoric that that claims the moral force of law, but the reality is anarchy -- which is why Putin was able to invade Ukraine and North Korea's government has remained in place for 70 years, doing things liberals find to be horrific and "illegal" the whole time.
- HailingFailing 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - drcongo 4y ago
    Why did you feel the need to create a new account to post this?
    - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
      [flagged]
    - HailingFailing 4y ago
      [flagged]
  - 6510 4y ago
    they don't necessarily get to see the travel accommodations before paying
  - MattPalmer1086 4y ago
    Yeah, those criminal migrants. How dare they risk their lives in small boats. It's almost like they had a really good reason to do it. Where is your humanity, your compassion?
    - HailingFailing 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - MattPalmer1086 4y ago
        There is no evidence that migrants commit more crime than native people, violent or not. You say you are worried that your grandchildren will have no place to live among their "own kind". Being human not enough? Frankly you sound like a racist.

by AS37 4y ago

buraktamturk 4y ago

Legally speaking, they can't. It doesn't matter where the ship will be docking. Anything otherwise is a crime against humanity. International laws and EU laws are bigger than any Italian authority and Italian laws that has been ever established.

fnmron 4y ago
Not really, italian law rules in italy, that's out of question.
- buraktamturk 4y ago
  Not at all. Laws has to be compatible with universal laws, international treaties/laws such as UN Geneva Convention and for Italy also the EU laws. Along many other conditions such as arbitrariness.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Not at all. Laws has to be compatible with universal laws, international treaties/laws such as UN Geneva Convention and for Italy also the EU laws. Along many other conditions such as arbitrariness. No they don't. What authority enforces that? If not other country or international body has the willingness and capability to go to war with Italy in order to enforce its opinions, and if no country is willing to shun Italy over this or Italy is fine with the shunning, then Italy can have whatever laws it likes.
    - buraktamturk 4y ago
      They do. I do not have to convince you that 2+2=4. If you have read recent European Human Rights Court decisions, you can clearly see what kind of domestic laws is in violation of law. (Yes, I mean some domestic laws are in violation of laws)
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > They do. I do not have to convince you that 2+2=4. Yeah, because you're trying to convince me that 2+2=5. > If you have read recent European Human Rights Court decisions, you can clearly see what kind of domestic laws is in violation of law. (Yes, I mean some domestic laws are in violation of laws) And what's that court going to do to make Italy comply? For instance: I can claim until I'm blue in the face that everyone has to comply with some "universal law" that I declare, and I can issue statements to that effect, but in reality that's totally meaningless because I lack the power to make others follow me. There are a lot of international bodies that makes similar claims, and similarly lack the power. Maybe those bodies persuaded you, but that doesn't matter to the unpersuaded. International relations is literally anarchy. Sometimes there's cooperation that looks like law, and rhetoric that that claims the moral force of law, but the reality is anarchy -- which is why Putin was able to invade Ukraine and North Korea's government has remained in place for 70 years, doing things liberals find to be horrific and "illegal" the whole time.
HailingFailing 4y ago
[flagged]
- drcongo 4y ago
  Why did you feel the need to create a new account to post this?
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - HailingFailing 4y ago
    [flagged]
- 6510 4y ago
  they don't necessarily get to see the travel accommodations before paying
- MattPalmer1086 4y ago
  Yeah, those criminal migrants. How dare they risk their lives in small boats. It's almost like they had a really good reason to do it. Where is your humanity, your compassion?
  - HailingFailing 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - MattPalmer1086 4y ago
      There is no evidence that migrants commit more crime than native people, violent or not. You say you are worried that your grandchildren will have no place to live among their "own kind". Being human not enough? Frankly you sound like a racist.