4 ms·

> Recent grads can live on practically nothing, and this gives you an edge over older founders Seems like this was every other startup in the 2020-2021 period.

> Recent grads can live on practically nothing, and this gives you an edge over older founders Seems like this was every other startup in the 2020-2021 period. Zero experience founders raising a ton of money. I wonder if this is shifting a bit with the financial markets tightening up.

simonebrunozzi 4y ago
I actually disagree with PG on this one. Yes, younger founders are low maintenance, but older founders usually have a large network to tap into for fundraising.
- gabereiser 4y ago
  it's not apples to apples. Older founders usually have a network they can tap into, yes, but also usually have a lifestyle that requires a bit more than the average college grad. One thing I've told folks who ask "how do I start a startup with little money?" "You start with what you got". Sometimes selling things off to reduce your expenses to be able to give your startup more runway. Or not take any money at all (I met with a pair that did this for almost 2 years!). In the end, it's all situational. Younger founders are lower maintenance to the balance sheets and have more potential but it's more risk. I'm not a VC so I couldn't say what goes into the decision making there other than "he's younger and smarter so I'm betting on this horse".
  - wintogreen74 4y ago
    >> but also usually have a lifestyle that requires a bit more than the average college grad I've noticed that an entire generation of essentially 0% interest rates has skewed this substantially. I'm in my 40's and I've scrimped and saved and have very few "premium lifestyle tastes", while many 20-somethings have lived well beyond their means financed for free their entire lives. Their expectation for the baseline standard is much higher than 15-20 years ago
    - gabereiser 4y ago
      I'm the same demographic as you. 40s, not rich (especially compared to some other HN readers) but not hurting per se. I live well below my means. When I was younger it was a different story. I had higher tastes for things but couldn't afford them. I didn't go run up the credit card though just because I wanted it. I think that's the difference. Buy Now, Pay Later only applied to cars and houses for me.
- mateo411 4y ago
  I think that founders have become older since 2006. There are a lot of people work for a big company for a while, or go into an industry, then go to a start up. I don't have any data to show this is true, but I suspect that it is.
zackmorris 4y ago
Ya this is the point where I stopped reading. People seem to have a misconception about the poor: that they can live on next to nothing. In reality, the poorer a person is, the more they work just to survive. Not to mention that the world is profoundly less allowing of entrepreneurship than it used to be. I graduated from college in 1999 with about $25,000 in student loans with a $340/mo payment and my rent was $250. I was able to get by on a $10/hr seasonal furniture moving job. Today those numbers would be at least $50,000, $500/mo loan payment and $750 rent, so a person would need $20+/hr just to survive. Which means a real job and 40 hour workweeks with no time or motivation left over for a side business. Same city, double the population, half the independence. Trapped. I'm disillusioned with it all because nobody ever solved the funding problem. Kickstarter is opinionated in what it will fund. Crypto turned into a Ponzi scheme instead of a way to fund startups. So it's probably over, and I'm just waiting now for AI to disrupt society so completely that it's forced to adopt UBI or face 50% unemployment.
- Xeoncross 4y ago
  Yet another reminder not to take on debt. It's better to put the extra work in to pay for stuff upfront then move the burden to after college unless you have the network and guarantees to know you have a job lined up.
  - sealeck 4y ago
    There are two things I want to say. First, this is one of those things which is easy to say but for many (most?) people hard to implement. Sure, some people's family may be able to give them the money they need to go to university but this is not the case for most people, and in this case it is really hard to earn enough money _before starting_ to pay for your university education. The second is that debt can be good (our society is literally built on it) in many cases (e.g. home loans, provided you can afford to pay them off) if you are not in a highly asymmetrical power relationship with your lender.
    - Xeoncross 4y ago
      While I don't disagree with you, I want to say that this idea of it being impossible to go to collage without taking out loans is not true. I know multiple people who worked, applied for grants, and used cheaper/affordable colleges first before uni. > debt can be good (our society is literally built on it) I would argue that our countries increased reliance on debt over the past 50 years has decimated the lower class and harmed the middle class while the wealthiest class has seen their influence and ownership percentages surge.

simonebrunozzi 4y ago

I actually disagree with PG on this one. Yes, younger founders are low maintenance, but older founders usually have a large network to tap into for fundraising.

gabereiser 4y ago
it's not apples to apples. Older founders usually have a network they can tap into, yes, but also usually have a lifestyle that requires a bit more than the average college grad. One thing I've told folks who ask "how do I start a startup with little money?" "You start with what you got". Sometimes selling things off to reduce your expenses to be able to give your startup more runway. Or not take any money at all (I met with a pair that did this for almost 2 years!). In the end, it's all situational. Younger founders are lower maintenance to the balance sheets and have more potential but it's more risk. I'm not a VC so I couldn't say what goes into the decision making there other than "he's younger and smarter so I'm betting on this horse".
- wintogreen74 4y ago
  >> but also usually have a lifestyle that requires a bit more than the average college grad I've noticed that an entire generation of essentially 0% interest rates has skewed this substantially. I'm in my 40's and I've scrimped and saved and have very few "premium lifestyle tastes", while many 20-somethings have lived well beyond their means financed for free their entire lives. Their expectation for the baseline standard is much higher than 15-20 years ago
  - gabereiser 4y ago
    I'm the same demographic as you. 40s, not rich (especially compared to some other HN readers) but not hurting per se. I live well below my means. When I was younger it was a different story. I had higher tastes for things but couldn't afford them. I didn't go run up the credit card though just because I wanted it. I think that's the difference. Buy Now, Pay Later only applied to cars and houses for me.
mateo411 4y ago
I think that founders have become older since 2006. There are a lot of people work for a big company for a while, or go into an industry, then go to a start up. I don't have any data to show this is true, but I suspect that it is.

zackmorris 4y ago

Ya this is the point where I stopped reading. People seem to have a misconception about the poor: that they can live on next to nothing. In reality, the poorer a person is, the more they work just to survive. Not to mention that the world is profoundly less allowing of entrepreneurship than it used to be. I graduated from college in 1999 with about $25,000 in student loans with a $340/mo payment and my rent was $250. I was able to get by on a $10/hr seasonal furniture moving job. Today those numbers would be at least $50,000, $500/mo loan payment and $750 rent, so a person would need $20+/hr just to survive. Which means a real job and 40 hour workweeks with no time or motivation left over for a side business. Same city, double the population, half the independence. Trapped. I'm disillusioned with it all because nobody ever solved the funding problem. Kickstarter is opinionated in what it will fund. Crypto turned into a Ponzi scheme instead of a way to fund startups. So it's probably over, and I'm just waiting now for AI to disrupt society so completely that it's forced to adopt UBI or face 50% unemployment.

Xeoncross 4y ago
Yet another reminder not to take on debt. It's better to put the extra work in to pay for stuff upfront then move the burden to after college unless you have the network and guarantees to know you have a job lined up.
- sealeck 4y ago
  There are two things I want to say. First, this is one of those things which is easy to say but for many (most?) people hard to implement. Sure, some people's family may be able to give them the money they need to go to university but this is not the case for most people, and in this case it is really hard to earn enough money _before starting_ to pay for your university education. The second is that debt can be good (our society is literally built on it) in many cases (e.g. home loans, provided you can afford to pay them off) if you are not in a highly asymmetrical power relationship with your lender.
  - Xeoncross 4y ago
    While I don't disagree with you, I want to say that this idea of it being impossible to go to collage without taking out loans is not true. I know multiple people who worked, applied for grants, and used cheaper/affordable colleges first before uni. > debt can be good (our society is literally built on it) I would argue that our countries increased reliance on debt over the past 50 years has decimated the lower class and harmed the middle class while the wealthiest class has seen their influence and ownership percentages surge.