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Counterargument: As a customer, I much prefer PayPal (or Google Pay, or Apple Pay) over some random integration where I need to enter my credit card. It's not

by cheeze 4y ago

Counterargument: As a customer, I much prefer PayPal (or Google Pay, or Apple Pay) over some random integration where I need to enter my credit card. It's not a dealbreaker for me, but if the PayPal integration exists, I'm using it 100% of the time. I'm already logged in, it has my payment instrument saved, and I don't have to worry about security as much.

throwaway346434 4y ago
And you are enableing the problem.
- perbu 4y ago
  No. They're stating the preference to use Paypal if the vendor offers it - as opposed to entering CC numbers.
  - dustymcp 4y ago
    Thats not the only reason, if you never get your stuff you can handle that from paypal UI, you cant do that with alot of CC companies and have to phone somebody that might or might not respond in time, this is the sole reason why i prefer paypal over CC.
  - hot_gril 4y ago
    Which can be seen as enabling the problem, but whatever, people are gonna use the easier thing.
berkle4455 4y ago
Probably try to pay with a Discover card too.
OJFord 4y ago
Counter-argument: as another customer, I much prefer anything but PayPal, which even pretends to offer guest checkout that you'd think might be no worse, but then actually creates an account 'for you' and emails you forever. It might be a deal-breaker for me, and if another option exists, I'm hsing it 100% of the time. I don't need to log in, password manager or browser has my payment instrument saved ready to auto-fill, and I don't have to worry about security or privacy as much.
- cheeze 4y ago
  My take (with no real data): your counter-argument is a tiny group of people, mine isn't. Most people have a PayPal account. Your "emails me forever" is not a real concern for 99% of users.
  - riceart 4y ago
    Your metric is asinine. I use PayPal only when absolutely necessary and/or basically low value items where I don’t care too much. I have a Facebook account too, doesn’t mean meta still isn’t screwed. And why is this a popularity contest or that the uniformed public’s (or your) opinion matters? People do dumb financial shit all the time. In the US at least, PayPal puts you at a disadvantage from a fraud protection standpoint since they are yet another unfriendly, large essentially unregulated middleman to deal with.
    - hot_gril 4y ago
      He's saying what most customers do, and he's right. Most people prefer PayPal. Otherwise it would be easy to drop.
      - crtasm 4y ago
        I'd wager that a significant amount of that "prefer" is from it often being the first/default option at checkout.
        hot_gril 4y ago
        If it's the first option, it's probably cause it's preferred by customers. It doesn't do anything good for the seller. Little Snitch in particular has credit card on the LHS and PayPal to the right, which kinda suggests PayPal being secondary.
        riceart 4y ago
        > It doesn't do anything good for the seller. Sure it does. It gives them relatively more chargeback protection at the expense of the consumer. And yes I’ve heard all the seller griping that this isn’t the case - as if it would be expected that they could shield them from 100% of chargebacks - it doesn’t make it true. It’s relatively harder for a customer to even get forward in the dispute process with PayPal in the mix. These sellers often aren’t evening seeing these killed disputes.
warent 4y ago
Count me among the many who prefer the superior UX that PayPal provides. They're also excellent as a singular source for managing my subscriptions. If I ever forget what I'm subscribed to or want to cancel things, you can do it all in one place with PayPal just blocking further payments from processing from that business. If people want PayPal to stop being used, then update your bank technology so the UX isn't so ass. Then perhaps we'll switch.
- dustymcp 4y ago
  Also the fraud management is great, so if you do get cheated on paypal then you can near always get your money back. I would never start a business on it but as a paying customer it just works for me.
mcv 4y ago
Credit card is also bad. That does not make PayPal acceptable. It's frankly ridiculous that these are the only two widely supported options for international payment. It's easy to make something better, but somehow much of the world seems stuck with the two worst options.
- brazzy 4y ago
  > It's easy to make something better, but somehow much of the world seems stuck with the two worst options. You got some interesting cognitive dissonance there...
  - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
    I don't think you know what cognitive dissonance actually is.
    - hot_gril 4y ago
      Is it when I hear voices in my head?
- hot_gril 4y ago
  It's not easy to make something better. Electronic payments are gonna be regulated and tracked to the fullest whether it's PayPal or someone else. The only digital solution is cryptocurrency, and love it or hate it, it has big hurdles.
  - mcv 4y ago
    > It's not easy to make something better. Better solutions already exist. Just not internationally. And I frankly don't understand why.
    - hot_gril 4y ago
      I haven't seen anything better that fulfills the same purpose in the US. You can't use Zelle like PayPal. If you use Venmo with a business, it's basically the same as Paypal (besides being owned by Paypal). Stripe has similar rules around credit card payments. This is because of regulations, not technical issues. Maybe the situation is better in certain countries, but who knows how long that'll last.

by cheeze 4y ago

throwaway346434 4y ago

And you are enableing the problem.

perbu 4y ago
No. They're stating the preference to use Paypal if the vendor offers it - as opposed to entering CC numbers.
- dustymcp 4y ago
  Thats not the only reason, if you never get your stuff you can handle that from paypal UI, you cant do that with alot of CC companies and have to phone somebody that might or might not respond in time, this is the sole reason why i prefer paypal over CC.
- hot_gril 4y ago
  Which can be seen as enabling the problem, but whatever, people are gonna use the easier thing.

berkle4455 4y ago

Probably try to pay with a Discover card too.

OJFord 4y ago

Counter-argument: as another customer, I much prefer anything but PayPal, which even pretends to offer guest checkout that you'd think might be no worse, but then actually creates an account 'for you' and emails you forever. It might be a deal-breaker for me, and if another option exists, I'm hsing it 100% of the time. I don't need to log in, password manager or browser has my payment instrument saved ready to auto-fill, and I don't have to worry about security or privacy as much.

cheeze 4y ago
My take (with no real data): your counter-argument is a tiny group of people, mine isn't. Most people have a PayPal account. Your "emails me forever" is not a real concern for 99% of users.
- riceart 4y ago
  Your metric is asinine. I use PayPal only when absolutely necessary and/or basically low value items where I don’t care too much. I have a Facebook account too, doesn’t mean meta still isn’t screwed. And why is this a popularity contest or that the uniformed public’s (or your) opinion matters? People do dumb financial shit all the time. In the US at least, PayPal puts you at a disadvantage from a fraud protection standpoint since they are yet another unfriendly, large essentially unregulated middleman to deal with.
  - hot_gril 4y ago
    He's saying what most customers do, and he's right. Most people prefer PayPal. Otherwise it would be easy to drop.
    - crtasm 4y ago
      I'd wager that a significant amount of that "prefer" is from it often being the first/default option at checkout.
      - hot_gril 4y ago
        If it's the first option, it's probably cause it's preferred by customers. It doesn't do anything good for the seller. Little Snitch in particular has credit card on the LHS and PayPal to the right, which kinda suggests PayPal being secondary.
        riceart 4y ago
        > It doesn't do anything good for the seller. Sure it does. It gives them relatively more chargeback protection at the expense of the consumer. And yes I’ve heard all the seller griping that this isn’t the case - as if it would be expected that they could shield them from 100% of chargebacks - it doesn’t make it true. It’s relatively harder for a customer to even get forward in the dispute process with PayPal in the mix. These sellers often aren’t evening seeing these killed disputes.

warent 4y ago

Count me among the many who prefer the superior UX that PayPal provides. They're also excellent as a singular source for managing my subscriptions. If I ever forget what I'm subscribed to or want to cancel things, you can do it all in one place with PayPal just blocking further payments from processing from that business. If people want PayPal to stop being used, then update your bank technology so the UX isn't so ass. Then perhaps we'll switch.

dustymcp 4y ago
Also the fraud management is great, so if you do get cheated on paypal then you can near always get your money back. I would never start a business on it but as a paying customer it just works for me.

mcv 4y ago

Credit card is also bad. That does not make PayPal acceptable. It's frankly ridiculous that these are the only two widely supported options for international payment. It's easy to make something better, but somehow much of the world seems stuck with the two worst options.

brazzy 4y ago
> It's easy to make something better, but somehow much of the world seems stuck with the two worst options. You got some interesting cognitive dissonance there...
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  I don't think you know what cognitive dissonance actually is.
  - hot_gril 4y ago
    Is it when I hear voices in my head?
hot_gril 4y ago
It's not easy to make something better. Electronic payments are gonna be regulated and tracked to the fullest whether it's PayPal or someone else. The only digital solution is cryptocurrency, and love it or hate it, it has big hurdles.
- mcv 4y ago
  > It's not easy to make something better. Better solutions already exist. Just not internationally. And I frankly don't understand why.
  - hot_gril 4y ago
    I haven't seen anything better that fulfills the same purpose in the US. You can't use Zelle like PayPal. If you use Venmo with a business, it's basically the same as Paypal (besides being owned by Paypal). Stripe has similar rules around credit card payments. This is because of regulations, not technical issues. Maybe the situation is better in certain countries, but who knows how long that'll last.