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> Push messages can be particularly useful for applications that need to deliver timely, relevant information to their users, such as news or sports apps, or fo

by jmull 4y ago

> Push messages can be particularly useful for applications that need to deliver timely, relevant information to their users, such as news or sports apps, or for e-commerce websites that want to send users notifications about special offers or sales. Sure, they have their uses… but web sites will send far more notifications than anyone wants to receive. People would enjoy a drinking fountain but get a fire hose. I don’t even think about it. I just click “no” (and curse under my breath for even making me do that) and move on.

paulmeinshausen 4y ago
[flagged]
- aerzen 4y ago
  I dont consider my phone to be out of date, but this website you linked is way too much for it. Laggy, takes 10sec to load and then asks for cookies before I even see what it is about. Nope.
- haspok 4y ago
  > Aampe adds AI and ML optimization to your existing marketing stack, so you can send better messages in hours, not months. Nice try, buddy. It is not a "tooling problem", it is a GTF-off-my-lawn problem.
  - paulmeinshausen 4y ago
    And ML can help recognise users who feel that way and "get off their lawn" faster. It's absolutely a tooling problem.
    - haspok 4y ago
      You are overcomplicating it. User turns off notifications permanently (in Firefox, the setting is called "Block new requests asking to allow notifications"), problem solved. No tooling needed!
    - throw-ru-938 4y ago
      A better idea would be getting of everyone's lawn -- no ML required.
- robby_w_g 4y ago
  > timing/frequency optimisation Or in other words, how to spam people as much as possible without them disabling notifications in frustration.
joshxyz 4y ago
more like people want some eye drops of notifications, they get niagara falls. everyone is competing for your attention.
afavour 4y ago
I’ve never understood why the push notification permission doesn’t require a click to activate. Many other intrusive things (e.g. playing a video) do. Google have even gone down a long winded path of disabling the prompt for sites that have low acceptances rates which seems like a very over complicated solution. Allowing it on page load has totally soured users on what could be a really useful tool. Sometimes I absolutely would like to receive notifications from a service without having to install an entire native app for it. Unfortunately that’s counter to the way Apple have implemented web push, requiring a Home Screen install before you’re able to use it.
- kmeisthax 4y ago
  On iOS push notifications are gated behind Web Clips[0]. You can only ask for notification permissions if the user has pinned your webapp to the homescreen. This seems like a perfect way to deal with all the spammy notification asks. [0] What iOS calls a "progressive web app"
  - afavour 4y ago
    To me it’s not ideal. I can imagine wanting a notification from an app I don’t want to install to my home screen and I wish it were possible.
    - philistine 4y ago
      I know it’s not exactly what you have in mind, but with the App Library screen you can have an app installed yet not on any Home Screen. It’s just with the rest of your apps in there. Apple is between a rock and a hard place with your request. What you want would require another way to delete a web app from your notification list. Right now they went with the simplest method: just use the way the native apps do it.
      - simjnd 4y ago
        Actually Web Clips are an exception: you cannot have it in App Library. It's either on your home screen or deleted.
warner25 4y ago
Whenever I get prompted to allow them from a website, my immediate thought is "why would they ever think I'd want this?"
- twism 4y ago
  Not all web apps spam notifications. I think we are all thinking of notifications in the context of what typical websites typically do but this is all dependent on what the web app/developer does (eg. if HN had a push notifications, wouldn't it be nice to know when you receive a reply to your comment? ... plus a "Notifications Settings" page to set what type of notifications HN can send, notifications about a certain topic or domain on the front page, etc?) Uber Eats and Drizzly spam my notifications (I know Android has very detailed/overly complex IMO way of managing app notification channels) but because they are native apps we don't complain.
  - twism 4y ago
    HNNotify.io (YC S23) anyone?
  - brycedriesenga 4y ago
    I love how detailed the notification management on Android can be
  - jmull 4y ago
    > Not all web apps spam notifications Yes. I’ll bet there are many well-behaved web apps, with well-considered notifications and concise and simple options so that users get everything they want and little they don’t. They are downed out by the firehose too.
    - twism 4y ago
      firehose? as in other websites the user has allowed notifications for that are "bad" actors?
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    > if HN had a push notifications, wouldn't it be nice to know when you receive a reply to your comment? Not via a push notification, no.
iza 4y ago
You can deny push notifications by default in your browser settings and never be prompted again. They can still be manually allowed on the sites where you actually want them. Same goes for location requests and other "site settings".

by jmull 4y ago

paulmeinshausen 4y ago

[flagged]

aerzen 4y ago
I dont consider my phone to be out of date, but this website you linked is way too much for it. Laggy, takes 10sec to load and then asks for cookies before I even see what it is about. Nope.
haspok 4y ago
> Aampe adds AI and ML optimization to your existing marketing stack, so you can send better messages in hours, not months. Nice try, buddy. It is not a "tooling problem", it is a GTF-off-my-lawn problem.
- paulmeinshausen 4y ago
  And ML can help recognise users who feel that way and "get off their lawn" faster. It's absolutely a tooling problem.
  - haspok 4y ago
    You are overcomplicating it. User turns off notifications permanently (in Firefox, the setting is called "Block new requests asking to allow notifications"), problem solved. No tooling needed!
  - throw-ru-938 4y ago
    A better idea would be getting of everyone's lawn -- no ML required.
robby_w_g 4y ago
> timing/frequency optimisation Or in other words, how to spam people as much as possible without them disabling notifications in frustration.

joshxyz 4y ago

more like people want some eye drops of notifications, they get niagara falls. everyone is competing for your attention.

afavour 4y ago

I’ve never understood why the push notification permission doesn’t require a click to activate. Many other intrusive things (e.g. playing a video) do. Google have even gone down a long winded path of disabling the prompt for sites that have low acceptances rates which seems like a very over complicated solution. Allowing it on page load has totally soured users on what could be a really useful tool. Sometimes I absolutely would like to receive notifications from a service without having to install an entire native app for it. Unfortunately that’s counter to the way Apple have implemented web push, requiring a Home Screen install before you’re able to use it.

kmeisthax 4y ago
On iOS push notifications are gated behind Web Clips[0]. You can only ask for notification permissions if the user has pinned your webapp to the homescreen. This seems like a perfect way to deal with all the spammy notification asks. [0] What iOS calls a "progressive web app"
- afavour 4y ago
  To me it’s not ideal. I can imagine wanting a notification from an app I don’t want to install to my home screen and I wish it were possible.
  - philistine 4y ago
    I know it’s not exactly what you have in mind, but with the App Library screen you can have an app installed yet not on any Home Screen. It’s just with the rest of your apps in there. Apple is between a rock and a hard place with your request. What you want would require another way to delete a web app from your notification list. Right now they went with the simplest method: just use the way the native apps do it.
    - simjnd 4y ago
      Actually Web Clips are an exception: you cannot have it in App Library. It's either on your home screen or deleted.

warner25 4y ago

Whenever I get prompted to allow them from a website, my immediate thought is "why would they ever think I'd want this?"

twism 4y ago
Not all web apps spam notifications. I think we are all thinking of notifications in the context of what typical websites typically do but this is all dependent on what the web app/developer does (eg. if HN had a push notifications, wouldn't it be nice to know when you receive a reply to your comment? ... plus a "Notifications Settings" page to set what type of notifications HN can send, notifications about a certain topic or domain on the front page, etc?) Uber Eats and Drizzly spam my notifications (I know Android has very detailed/overly complex IMO way of managing app notification channels) but because they are native apps we don't complain.
- twism 4y ago
  HNNotify.io (YC S23) anyone?
- brycedriesenga 4y ago
  I love how detailed the notification management on Android can be
- jmull 4y ago
  > Not all web apps spam notifications Yes. I’ll bet there are many well-behaved web apps, with well-considered notifications and concise and simple options so that users get everything they want and little they don’t. They are downed out by the firehose too.
  - twism 4y ago
    firehose? as in other websites the user has allowed notifications for that are "bad" actors?
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > if HN had a push notifications, wouldn't it be nice to know when you receive a reply to your comment? Not via a push notification, no.

iza 4y ago

You can deny push notifications by default in your browser settings and never be prompted again. They can still be manually allowed on the sites where you actually want them. Same goes for location requests and other "site settings".