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Yes, its a nice veil they can hide behind. But what boggles my mind the most is, why did FBI have to deport them? Are they really so irrational that they could

by c0mpute 15y ago

Yes, its a nice veil they can hide behind. But what boggles my mind the most is, why did FBI have to deport them? Are they really so irrational that they could not discern genuine threats vs someone who jokingly meant it (and in this case its a brit slang!). This is where I think administration is falling apart. You read those stories about TSA horror stories and all of them indicate a lack of common sense on the administrative side.

rdtsc 15y ago
I think large bureaucratic network will have this effect (like the movie Brazil). Many little dumb cogs, all "doing their job" can result in horrible things happening.
c0mpute 15y ago
@rdtsc weird i dont see a reply link to your comment of mine, so replying here - Yes I agree with you, its almost a "collective failure" that you can expect from a system where each part doesn't have the complete picture (FBI not telling TSA all the protocols, TSA hiding things from police, etc...).
mikeash 15y ago
I believe that we're seeing the result of an extreme cover-your-ass mentality. There is a chance, even though incredibly small, that the person in question really will commit some act of terrorism. What are the payoffs to the individual making this decision of all the possible options? Not a terrorist, deport him: no cost. Not a terrorist, let him in: no cost. Terrorist, deport him: no cost. Terrorist, let him in: lose your job, your career, get to testify before a hostile Congress, become a national scapegoat, etc. etc. As far as I know, there are no consequences for deporting someone in a situation like this. Thus, even if the chances that he's a real terrorist are incredibly small, the fact that they're nonzero, and the fact that knowledge of this tweet would inevitably result in massive fingerpointing in that remote event, means that deportation is the obvious best choice. There's no benefit to letting him in, and some benefit to deporting him. You see this sort of thing pop up in any large bureaucracy. There are rarely penalties for "better safe than sorry", even when taken to an absurd degree, but there are huge penalties for a failing to take that approach in the event that you miss something. My wife just finished a thorough government background check, including an in-person interview about all of her international travel activity for the last X years, several calls for followup questions about relatives and their jobs and potential ties to foreign governments, etc. The job they're checking her for? Web designer at the Smithsonian. Not exactly a repository of national secrets here. That background check makes no sense from a cost-benefit analysis, but makes tons of sense from a cover-your-ass bureaucratic analysis. Looks to me like the exact same thing happened with this tweet.
- c0mpute 15y ago
  Well put. It is unfortunate that there is no way to have these folks accountable for their actions. I agree the public sentiments will be with them in this case though, but its one step closer to the Orwellian society. Note: I am not a USA citizen or reside in USA - just so that my perspectives are understood as an outsider.
jrwoodruff 15y ago
Common sense and plain human decency. http://rt.com/usa/news/tsa-breast-cancer-dorn-147/ http://rt.com/usa/news/tsa-breast-cancer-dorn-147/

by c0mpute 15y ago

rdtsc 15y ago

I think large bureaucratic network will have this effect (like the movie Brazil). Many little dumb cogs, all "doing their job" can result in horrible things happening.

c0mpute 15y ago

@rdtsc weird i dont see a reply link to your comment of mine, so replying here - Yes I agree with you, its almost a "collective failure" that you can expect from a system where each part doesn't have the complete picture (FBI not telling TSA all the protocols, TSA hiding things from police, etc...).

mikeash 15y ago

I believe that we're seeing the result of an extreme cover-your-ass mentality. There is a chance, even though incredibly small, that the person in question really will commit some act of terrorism. What are the payoffs to the individual making this decision of all the possible options? Not a terrorist, deport him: no cost. Not a terrorist, let him in: no cost. Terrorist, deport him: no cost. Terrorist, let him in: lose your job, your career, get to testify before a hostile Congress, become a national scapegoat, etc. etc. As far as I know, there are no consequences for deporting someone in a situation like this. Thus, even if the chances that he's a real terrorist are incredibly small, the fact that they're nonzero, and the fact that knowledge of this tweet would inevitably result in massive fingerpointing in that remote event, means that deportation is the obvious best choice. There's no benefit to letting him in, and some benefit to deporting him. You see this sort of thing pop up in any large bureaucracy. There are rarely penalties for "better safe than sorry", even when taken to an absurd degree, but there are huge penalties for a failing to take that approach in the event that you miss something. My wife just finished a thorough government background check, including an in-person interview about all of her international travel activity for the last X years, several calls for followup questions about relatives and their jobs and potential ties to foreign governments, etc. The job they're checking her for? Web designer at the Smithsonian. Not exactly a repository of national secrets here. That background check makes no sense from a cost-benefit analysis, but makes tons of sense from a cover-your-ass bureaucratic analysis. Looks to me like the exact same thing happened with this tweet.

c0mpute 15y ago
Well put. It is unfortunate that there is no way to have these folks accountable for their actions. I agree the public sentiments will be with them in this case though, but its one step closer to the Orwellian society. Note: I am not a USA citizen or reside in USA - just so that my perspectives are understood as an outsider.

jrwoodruff 15y ago

Common sense and plain human decency. http://rt.com/usa/news/tsa-breast-cancer-dorn-147/ http://rt.com/usa/news/tsa-breast-cancer-dorn-147/