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Some context for Americans as a dual US/EU citizen: for many people, especially near cities, electric cars are already far more practical in the EU than gas car
by yosito 4y ago
Some context for Americans as a dual US/EU citizen: for many people, especially near cities, electric cars are already far more practical in the EU than gas cars. And they're far cheaper and more available than they are in the US. A lot of cities in the EU, even in Eastern Europe, have car sharing services that are 100% electric cars. Anytime I need a car in Europe, I just use an app and walk a couple minutes to the nearest electric car. They're pre-charged, have a range of 3-400 km, and are far faster and easier to drive than gas cars. When I spent some time in the US recently, and had to rent a gas car, I felt like I was using ancient technology. It was so sluggish and inconvenient and more expensive.
I say this because most Americans have the impression that the US on the cutting edge with technology, but in terms of electric cars, the US is really far behind.
- soco 4y agoThe local garbage trucks are also all electric, while the public transport was already (let's say 90%).
- jaclaz 4y agoYou are describing EU as if it was all the same. What you describe may exist (now) in a selected subset of EU cities, but it is not at all common nor ubiquitous all over EU. Please, list the cities you went to that offer these services, very likely they are a handful (i.e. not "a lot") and only in a few countries of EU.
- yosito 4y agoFair enough. I'm describing Budapest. I'm sure not every EU city is up to Hungary's high standards. ;)
- jaclaz 4y agoYou just did it again. How is the situation in Hungary, outside Budapest?
- yosito 4y agoHungary is pretty small. You can drive pretty much anywhere in the country from Budapest on a single charge. And there are charging stations all over the country as well. I've personally driven all over the country in an electric car with no issues... well, except a few times when I ended up off-roading in a tiny Volkswagen by mistake and almost getting stuck in the mud.
- cjblomqvist 4y agoCan't reply to yositos reply, so replying here instead. Exactly Specifically, "Anytime I need a car in Europe, I just use an app and walk a couple minutes to the nearest electric car." - I doubt that's the case for the car majority of Hungarians. I know it's not the case for the majority of Swedes. I live in Gothenburg, the car mecka of Sweden/Northern Europe. We have electric car rental if you live in the city center (along with the other 10% or so of the inhabitants). I actually live quite close to the Volvo factories. Nope - definitely no 2 min walk to pick up any electric car rental.
- ben_w 4y ago18% of Hungarians live in Budapest, and 73% of Hungarians are in some urban area. The land itself isn't driving anywhere. This is kinda the opposite problem of those who reject immigration "because {insert country name here} is full" — unless you're living in a city-sate it isn't even remotely full, it's just that most of the people have chosen live close to other people, which both makes it feel crowded and means that goods and services which kinda need high density environments are actually fine.
- nec4b 4y ago>> and 73% of Hungarians are in some urban area And what is the definition of some urban area in Hungary? Do you really believe a small towns with 1000-10000 inhabitants have electric car rentals available?
- ben_w 4y agoFirst, why are you reaching for what is by definition the smallest group? Second, I just looked up Hungarian towns by population, in that range, first one I found was Ráckeve, it has three car rentals. I can't tell what engine types the two which aren't "fancy old-timer VIP cars" rent out (and not only because even Chrome refuses to offer to translate for me), and you might not count the location anyway because it's on a short distance train line to the capital. Making a prediction from the number of vehicles in their publicity shots and the penetration of electric car sales, I'd guess even odds there's at least one electric vehicle, in that location, at the moment, that gets rented out. Looking at the google maps aerial photos of some of the places with population of 1k, I wouldn't count such small places as urban. I'm not sure what definition Wolfram Alpha used when I asked it for the number.
- returningfory2 4y agoI feel this a general phenomenon on HN. Someone living in a specific European country will describe a specific good thing about their country (or even just their local area), and then extrapolate to the entire European Union.
- krzyk 4y ago> And they're far cheaper and more available than they are in the US Ekhem, I think you live in a really wealthy place in EU, maybe Norway that subsidies electric cars so e.g. plumbers are driving Teslas. But in the real world, electric cars are too expensive for normies to buy. Car sharing - OK, that's available - but I'm yet to drive such car, because in in city in Poland there are only few such cars available (for a normal price) to drive. And I would like to test them out - but not at the price of driving to the other side of the city. Car rental - tried that - either not available or too expensive to rent (trip to Italy last year).
- boxed 4y agoThey are cheaper TCO right now, but not initial investment.
- yosito 4y agoEven initial investment in the EU is comparable to gas.
- cjrp 4y agoA lot of that depends on having access to relatively cheap charging at home/work. If you only have the public chargers, I really doubt the TCO is cheaper for an EV.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y agoAs on owner of BEV - if you are unable to charge at home, no chance to ride cheaper than ICE.
- yosito 4y agoNope, I live in Hungary. Also Teslas aren't really the electric vehicles of choice in Europe. Volkswagens are much more practical. I haven't been to Poland, but I'm surprised that the car sharing options there are worse than in Hungary.
- 4y ago
- numbers_guy 4y agoI live in Germany and have no idea what you are talking about.
- fxtentacle 4y agoWell, you do live in the only EU country where local industry opposed this bill ;)
- Symbiote 4y agoIn 2021, Germany had 15.6 plug-in EVs per 1000 people, compared to the EU average of 11.0 and the US figure of 6.2. If you're not interested in cars, you may need to look more carefully to spot them. Here in Denmark, there are plenty of Teslas around, but there are also EVs from normal brands (VW, BMW, Volvo etc) which go unnoticed, except the lack of an exhaust pipe. Look especially at new cars, 31% of new cars in Germany are electric. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country (2nd chart).
- nec4b 4y agoAnd what do those statistics have to do with the: "Anytime I need a car in Europe, I just use an app and walk a couple minutes to the nearest electric car." That sentence is completely untrue for large majority of Europeans who need a car to drive.
- Symbiote 4y agoLittle. I took it to be illustrative of how widespread electric cars were (2.5 times more common in the EU than the USA).
- HPsquared 4y agoThey're sufficiently practical for some applications, but not (yet) all.
- elif 4y agoI've been driving electric cars exclusively for about a decade and this week I am borrowing my father's new expensive audi to do him a favor and "sluggish and inconvenient" is not critical enough!! These cars are just dangerous. Trying to accelerate rapidly to make a merge? Actually impossible. A stoppage in traffic is coming? Just mash the brake pedal hard.. Maybe they have a deal with brake pad manufacturers... Sitting at a stoplight and want to fumble around with something? If you accidentally slip off the brake pedal, the DEFAULT behavior of the vehicle is to GO. What kind of design is that? Not to mention the gas station 'experience'
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y agoIve seen this car-sharing app in Munich. What is the model exactly? I can see it being useful to cut the bureaucracy of car rental out, but what are these prices and how do they make sense vs buying a car outright?
- arlcode 4y agoIt's when you mostly live without a car but occasionally need one for transportation and day trips. You usually can rent them by the hour or day and as you said it's a slightly different user experience than traditional car rental agencies. I know some people who use public transport / (e-)bikes exclusively but every once in a while want to visit a relative out in the wood or make a bigger purchases which would be hard to transport otherwise (some of them also own a cargo trailer for their bikes). It's not a majority by any means but for some people it work They would have to maintain and store a basically unused car otherwise.
- pif 4y agoWell, there are also some of us EU citizens, born and bred in the EU, who still love the concept of having our own car, waiting for us in our garage. We also like, from time to time, to drive thousands of km during leisure trips (read: driving to a holiday destination while hopping from a nice place on the way to another) without being constantly worried about the battery range. Oh, and we appreciate our car being designed with comfort in mind (read: spacious) rather than range (read: see those ugly dome-shaped Prius).
- noja 4y ago> have a range of 3-400 km That is some range!
- atlantic 4y agoGenerally speaking, in southern Europe, electric cars are very expensive (prices start at 2-3 times an annual salary), electricity is expensive, and refuelling is complicated. There are no pre-charged electric cars anywhere; electric mopeds are available, but they are slow and have a small range. Are you sure you're in Europe?
- Symbiote 4y agoShare Now operates in Madrid, Milan, Rome and Turin. Zity in Madrid.
- kyriakos 4y agoI live in southern Europe, electric cars are 15 to 20% more expensive than equivalent ICE cars. They also get government subsidies which makes the difference much smaller. Considering the lower TCO because there's lesser need for maintenance, lower road tax, occasional free parking, and the fact that PV in homes are very common here I think owning electric is generally favorable. Yes electric cars are more expensive but the initial investment is not that different from buying any new diesel or petrol powered car.
- enigma20 4y ago> And they're far cheaper and more available than they are in the US. But they are still very very expensive! In Germany for example: - Kia Niro EV, crosover/mini-suv, 47.590 € (ICE with mild-hybrid 32.590 €) - BMW 3 wagon, ICE, starts at 46.300,00 € So no, thank you. If I have that much money I will buy anything but expensive, lower class EV. For people with a low budget, probably cheapest wagon option is Dacia Jogger, starting 16.900 €. Find my reasonable priced, decent sized wagon for someone who can afford max 20k loan for a car. So no. If prices of EVs don't drop by 20%, and range (real, not on the paper) doesn't increase to at least 450 km in light winter conditions then I don't want to see an EV, although it's cool to drive. Also I live in a pretty new building, 5 years old in a really big city. We don't have chargers in the underground garage, although there is close to 200 apartments here.
- Yizahi 4y agoUgh, no. There are a lot of EVs, but they are much less practical for Europeans that for Americans, because they can charge them at home, and we usually can't. And car sharing in Europe (and probably other region too) is an extreme hassle - it is very expensive (unless you can make a super optimized multi stop same day route, basically a lot of trips same day), it is not widespread yet, and you can get hit with huge car damage fees many days/weeks after the trip, for pre-existing damage. And for travellers it is close to impossible due to drive permit restrictions.