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I didn’t need to read the article to know they meant new cars. We’ve been discussing this for several years and not once has anyone said we are going to scrap

I didn’t need to read the article to know they meant new cars. We’ve been discussing this for several years and not once has anyone said we are going to scrap existing vehicles.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
I agree, but just as an optimistic counterpoint: It seems like we might be lucky enough to get quickly to a point where recycling perfectly good ICE cars to make EVs will be the smart move for the consumers pocket and the planet. Theres not much point in talking about it while everyone is still making up lies about running out of lithium, barcoding poor people and eating bugs, but the cleaner air, demand response benefits, reduced imports of fuel, and superior experiemce seems likely to overtake the natural aging out of existing cars as it accelerates over the next decade. At a certain point, fuelling an ICE car simply wont make sense, just as working coal plants are closing because the coal fuel costs more than building new renewables.
- melling 4y ago
  Coal usage is at an all time high. https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/global-coal-consumption-reach-all-time-high-this-year-iea-2022-12-16/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/global-coal-cons... It is 25% of global emissions. We’ve had 50 years to deal with this. Coal is such a dirty source of power. I’ve been told renewables are competitive for at least a decade. Something doesn’t add up.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    Renewables have big upfront costs. This has a few effects, a key one being that stable countries with low cost of capital can lead on deployments. They first displace new builds, then later they close existing plants. The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed. As your article says: > The world is close to a peak in fossil fuel use, with coal set to be the first to decline, but we are not there yet," said Keisuke Sadamori, the IEA’s director of energy markets and security.
    - melling 4y ago
      Such optimism. It’s 50 years later. Half a century! https://youtu.be/Wp-WiNXH6hI https://youtu.be/Wp-WiNXH6hI coal is such a dirty source of power, we’d want to eliminate it even if it didn’t cause climate change.
      - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        We could definitely have done better, but if I was one of those weird Marvel comic aliens judging the human race we're looking likely to scrape a C on climate change, which is nice. Lots of good work by a lot of people involved. Sadly a lot of it was effort spent on combating lies and stupidity, which drags down our score, but such is life. Hopefully we'll have learned some lessons for the next global challenge we face.
        melling 4y ago
        Yes, I have learned my lesson. Next time I hear an optimist feed me a bunch of bs, i’m going to explain that they’re completely wrong, and people should hold the “optimists” just as accountable as the climate deniers. Time to admit you were wrong. Being wrong has a huge price.

I didn’t need to read the article to know they meant new cars. We’ve been discussing this for several years and not once has anyone said we are going to scrap existing vehicles.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

I agree, but just as an optimistic counterpoint: It seems like we might be lucky enough to get quickly to a point where recycling perfectly good ICE cars to make EVs will be the smart move for the consumers pocket and the planet. Theres not much point in talking about it while everyone is still making up lies about running out of lithium, barcoding poor people and eating bugs, but the cleaner air, demand response benefits, reduced imports of fuel, and superior experiemce seems likely to overtake the natural aging out of existing cars as it accelerates over the next decade. At a certain point, fuelling an ICE car simply wont make sense, just as working coal plants are closing because the coal fuel costs more than building new renewables.

melling 4y ago
Coal usage is at an all time high. https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/global-coal-consumption-reach-all-time-high-this-year-iea-2022-12-16/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/global-coal-cons... It is 25% of global emissions. We’ve had 50 years to deal with this. Coal is such a dirty source of power. I’ve been told renewables are competitive for at least a decade. Something doesn’t add up.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Renewables have big upfront costs. This has a few effects, a key one being that stable countries with low cost of capital can lead on deployments. They first displace new builds, then later they close existing plants. The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed. As your article says: > The world is close to a peak in fossil fuel use, with coal set to be the first to decline, but we are not there yet," said Keisuke Sadamori, the IEA’s director of energy markets and security.
  - melling 4y ago
    Such optimism. It’s 50 years later. Half a century! https://youtu.be/Wp-WiNXH6hI https://youtu.be/Wp-WiNXH6hI coal is such a dirty source of power, we’d want to eliminate it even if it didn’t cause climate change.
    - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
      We could definitely have done better, but if I was one of those weird Marvel comic aliens judging the human race we're looking likely to scrape a C on climate change, which is nice. Lots of good work by a lot of people involved. Sadly a lot of it was effort spent on combating lies and stupidity, which drags down our score, but such is life. Hopefully we'll have learned some lessons for the next global challenge we face.
      - melling 4y ago
        Yes, I have learned my lesson. Next time I hear an optimist feed me a bunch of bs, i’m going to explain that they’re completely wrong, and people should hold the “optimists” just as accountable as the climate deniers. Time to admit you were wrong. Being wrong has a huge price.