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Or maybe we should replace individual mobility with useful public transport, as electric vehicles are not a general solution due to all the issues you're pointi

Or maybe we should replace individual mobility with useful public transport, as electric vehicles are not a general solution due to all the issues you're pointing out and many more.

sofixa 4y ago
There is already massive work planned on that axis across the EU, with multi-billion investments in various important (at the EU and local levels) transit projects. https://cinea.ec.europa.eu/news-events/news/transport-infrastructure-eu-invests-eur-54-billion-support-key-projects-across-continent-2022-06-29_en https://cinea.ec.europa.eu/news-events/news/transport-infras... https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructure-and-investment_en https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructu...
inglor_cz 4y ago
This can be done, but it will take decades and major construction activity. Which may be constrained by the fact that steel and concrete production is CO2-heavy too. (And not just that, AFAIK the Netherlands put very strict limits on construction activity because of nitrogen emissions from the construction vehicles.) In the West, a lot of the middle class settlements have spread thin and wide, making public transport inefficient. Redensification is possible, but complicated - it involves a lot of people moving and at least some of them losing their gardens. Meanwhile, construction of new railways or upgrades of existing tracks (including light rail) meets heavy NIMBY opposition on every step, even in countries where rail is widely used for commute (such as in Czechia). In contemporary developed civilization, it is much easier to ban than to build.
DocTomoe 4y ago
That works great if you are living in a major city. Once you become even remotely rural, public transit becomes a massive problem - turns out point-to-point connections do not all converge on the same entry- and exit points. Which leads to an even more overheated market for flats in major cities and even more incentive of rural voters to vote for whatever radical party promises them a radically easier way of transport outside of major population centres.
tokinonagare 4y ago
The use cases don't overlap for a lot of car's usage. And the only people pushing public transports are people who never use them daily, because if they did they would know how bad it is to have train delay or cancelation twice a week, strikes at least 3 times a year, issue with tramway hitting cars or people fighting inside it, not to mention the permanent insecurity and piss odour in the subway.
- mpweiher 4y ago
  I use public transport usually several times a day and am a heavy proponent, exactly because I use it.
- niek_pas 4y ago
  All the issues you mention could be solved by more investment in public transport. I'm assuming you're from the states — try taking public transport in a country where it functions well, and see if you change your mind.
  - tokinonagare 4y ago
    > All the issues you mention could be solved by more investment in public transport. No. Insecurity won't go away just because stations look nicer. And for trains the problem is not investments, it's the civil servant mentality of people working there that don't give a shit about users and want to work as little as possible. The national railways company is well known for being a sinecure (it was personally confirmed by my brother who was told not to work too hard -- he was already not working a lot -- when doing an internship there). And I'm not even talking of the huge ticket prices, the machines not working, the lack of accessibility (better not have a big luggage or god forbid being in a wheelchair), restricted hours when the services are working, etc. There is a lot of things to hate about public transportations, at least when it's not done properly. It's fine in Japan but even there there are issues, Kyoto buses for instance is a shitshow. > I'm assuming you're from the states You are assuming wrong, I'm from and currently living in France.
New_California 4y ago
Anything else individual to be replaced by communal? Like, maybe, everything? Or just the cars? There are countries already implementing what you believe is right. Please emigrate over there and enjoy.
- LeonidasXIV 4y ago
  Arguing against a strawman is not a useful discussion technique. I was talking about public transport exclusively. Go to London or Tokyo and ask people living there if they would prefer to exchange the tube/Tokyo metro with individual cars.
  - hcurtiss 4y ago
    Yeah, this looks awesome. Particularly in the age of COVID. https://youtu.be/o9Xg7ui5mLA https://youtu.be/o9Xg7ui5mLA Not to be too snarky, but there are very legitimate critiques of public transit.
paulluuk 4y ago
Absolutely! First step: ban cars from cities.
- kavalg 4y ago
  second step, raise cost of public transport :). Already happening where I live.
ihatepython 4y ago
> Or maybe we should replace individual mobility with useful public transport I'd really like to see more monorails being built. I believe monorails would be an excellent general solution.

Or maybe we should replace individual mobility with useful public transport, as electric vehicles are not a general solution due to all the issues you're pointing out and many more.

sofixa 4y ago

There is already massive work planned on that axis across the EU, with multi-billion investments in various important (at the EU and local levels) transit projects. https://cinea.ec.europa.eu/news-events/news/transport-infrastructure-eu-invests-eur-54-billion-support-key-projects-across-continent-2022-06-29_en https://cinea.ec.europa.eu/news-events/news/transport-infras... https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructure-and-investment_en https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructu...

inglor_cz 4y ago

This can be done, but it will take decades and major construction activity. Which may be constrained by the fact that steel and concrete production is CO2-heavy too. (And not just that, AFAIK the Netherlands put very strict limits on construction activity because of nitrogen emissions from the construction vehicles.) In the West, a lot of the middle class settlements have spread thin and wide, making public transport inefficient. Redensification is possible, but complicated - it involves a lot of people moving and at least some of them losing their gardens. Meanwhile, construction of new railways or upgrades of existing tracks (including light rail) meets heavy NIMBY opposition on every step, even in countries where rail is widely used for commute (such as in Czechia). In contemporary developed civilization, it is much easier to ban than to build.

DocTomoe 4y ago

That works great if you are living in a major city. Once you become even remotely rural, public transit becomes a massive problem - turns out point-to-point connections do not all converge on the same entry- and exit points. Which leads to an even more overheated market for flats in major cities and even more incentive of rural voters to vote for whatever radical party promises them a radically easier way of transport outside of major population centres.

tokinonagare 4y ago

The use cases don't overlap for a lot of car's usage. And the only people pushing public transports are people who never use them daily, because if they did they would know how bad it is to have train delay or cancelation twice a week, strikes at least 3 times a year, issue with tramway hitting cars or people fighting inside it, not to mention the permanent insecurity and piss odour in the subway.

mpweiher 4y ago
I use public transport usually several times a day and am a heavy proponent, exactly because I use it.
niek_pas 4y ago
All the issues you mention could be solved by more investment in public transport. I'm assuming you're from the states — try taking public transport in a country where it functions well, and see if you change your mind.
- tokinonagare 4y ago
  > All the issues you mention could be solved by more investment in public transport. No. Insecurity won't go away just because stations look nicer. And for trains the problem is not investments, it's the civil servant mentality of people working there that don't give a shit about users and want to work as little as possible. The national railways company is well known for being a sinecure (it was personally confirmed by my brother who was told not to work too hard -- he was already not working a lot -- when doing an internship there). And I'm not even talking of the huge ticket prices, the machines not working, the lack of accessibility (better not have a big luggage or god forbid being in a wheelchair), restricted hours when the services are working, etc. There is a lot of things to hate about public transportations, at least when it's not done properly. It's fine in Japan but even there there are issues, Kyoto buses for instance is a shitshow. > I'm assuming you're from the states You are assuming wrong, I'm from and currently living in France.

New_California 4y ago

Anything else individual to be replaced by communal? Like, maybe, everything? Or just the cars? There are countries already implementing what you believe is right. Please emigrate over there and enjoy.

LeonidasXIV 4y ago
Arguing against a strawman is not a useful discussion technique. I was talking about public transport exclusively. Go to London or Tokyo and ask people living there if they would prefer to exchange the tube/Tokyo metro with individual cars.
- hcurtiss 4y ago
  Yeah, this looks awesome. Particularly in the age of COVID. https://youtu.be/o9Xg7ui5mLA https://youtu.be/o9Xg7ui5mLA Not to be too snarky, but there are very legitimate critiques of public transit.

paulluuk 4y ago

Absolutely! First step: ban cars from cities.

kavalg 4y ago
second step, raise cost of public transport :). Already happening where I live.

ihatepython 4y ago

> Or maybe we should replace individual mobility with useful public transport I'd really like to see more monorails being built. I believe monorails would be an excellent general solution.