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That's impossible to achieve. Not in 12 not in 50. It's not possible to cover with public transport all the places where cars can go. It's not capital nor opera

That's impossible to achieve. Not in 12 not in 50. It's not possible to cover with public transport all the places where cars can go. It's not capital nor operationally possible. What we will have is another strong wave of population concentrating in cities. Any economic activity outside of beaten paths will be very expensive. Because we are freaking retarded with housing in the west, people will lose the freedom private cars can give (because for most modal income people in europe, electric cars are simply not feasible), prices will increase even more. This happening while we have to deal with ageing and climate change, thus modal incomes will become efectively poor. Millions of rent slaves who have no savings and purchasing power, nor ability to scape because they can't move to live elsewhere where prices are lower, and commute to their job. Of course a combination of market + planning could, potentially solve this (kind of). But it's not going to happen because in Europe pensioners and near-to-be-pensioners rule everything, and they are so selfish and so short-sighted that they will dry public budgets until they collapse the system. The future of Europe is basically set in stone. France and Spain are very clear examples of what's ahead for everyone else. France on how a good chunk of the population is completely stupid and blind to the problem, and Spain on how politicians are willing to sacrifice a country to please pensioners. It's sad, but it is what it is.

LeonidasXIV 4y ago
> That's impossible to achieve. Not in 12 not in 50. It's not possible to cover with public transport all the places where cars can go. It's not capital nor operationally possible. It doesn't have to. A lot of population is urban and curbing car use in cities will be a massive improvement. So would proper train infrastructure to get between cities.
- spaniard89277 4y ago
  A lot of the economic activity needed to sustain cities happen elsewhere. Like farming, for example. But you also need wood, all kinds of rocks, sands, etc. It's simply not feasible.
ben_w 4y ago
> It's not possible to cover with public transport all the places where cars can go. OP said "most" not "all". Rental cars for the occasional exceptions, ownership for whoever has to use them regularly, that's still basically fine. > because for most modal income people in europe, electric cars are simply not feasible Purchase price, or price per km? Because that's a very important difference. Electric is already better on the latter, even if battery costs fail to get cheaper with more scale.
- favsq 4y ago
  >Rental cars for the occasional exceptions, ownership for whoever has to use them regularly, that's still basically fine. I'm really looking forward to the government knowing and controlling where I can go!
  - ben_w 4y ago
    The latter is not causally connected to the former.
    - favsq 4y ago
      oh we are in a covid lockdown. you can't get on this bus! oh it says here you have emitted a lot of co2 this year. you can't rent this car until next year! oh you were in an anti-goverment demonstration a few months ago so we know that you are headed to another one. you can't move from your 15-minute city! you really think these are hypotheticals?
      - ben_w 4y ago
        > oh we are in a covid lockdown. you can't get on this bus! Around here that seemed to be by virtue of the bus drivers not showing up because they didn't want to get ill. Nowt to do with whatever conspiracy theory you've been mainlining. Also no causal connection to electric vehicles etc. > oh it says here you have emitted a lot of co2 this year. you can't rent this car until next year! Definitely hypothetical. Also electric vehicles can be rented. Quite a few go past my flat each day. So again, no causal connection to electric vehicles etc. > oh you were in an anti-goverment demonstration a few months ago so we know that you are headed to another one. you can't move from your 15-minute city! The first part of that is being done (or at least proposed) without any connection at all to electric cars or public transit. The second part — the idea that 15 minute cities are about control — is a propaganda piece designed to rile up people like you. The reality is they're merely a fairly mild proposed planning policy to put stuff people want near those people who want that stuff, they have nothing in them about preventing people from leaving when they want to go further.
mamonster 4y ago
"Spain on how politicians are willing to sacrifice a country to please pensioners". Funnily enough that is exactly what Macron is also doing, because the under-discussed part of the current reform is that it does not put in question the current pensions which are absolutely massive based on what french pensioners paid in. But of course when you bring it up these people will try to gaslight you into the idea they built the society you enjoy today, unironically pretending that when they entered the job market in like 1965-70 Europe was still in ruins after WW2, and you simply don't want to work hard like they did.
lakomen 4y ago
Germany spending 100 Billion Euro to buy weapons... how many houses would that have been? 1 billion is 1000 million 100000 houses if one house costs 1 million to build, which it doesn't. I don't agree with your pensioners hate. You will be old too some day, if you live that long. And you'll be happy to not have to filter through trash cans so you can afford to survive.
- spaniard89277 4y ago
  Oh, so stating the fact that they rule everything and that the housing problem perpetuates because of them is hate? In Spain most housing stock is in hands of pensioners, boomers and public employees (with a lot of overlap). What should I do? Pretend this isn't happening?

LeonidasXIV 4y ago

> That's impossible to achieve. Not in 12 not in 50. It's not possible to cover with public transport all the places where cars can go. It's not capital nor operationally possible. It doesn't have to. A lot of population is urban and curbing car use in cities will be a massive improvement. So would proper train infrastructure to get between cities.

spaniard89277 4y ago
A lot of the economic activity needed to sustain cities happen elsewhere. Like farming, for example. But you also need wood, all kinds of rocks, sands, etc. It's simply not feasible.

ben_w 4y ago

> It's not possible to cover with public transport all the places where cars can go. OP said "most" not "all". Rental cars for the occasional exceptions, ownership for whoever has to use them regularly, that's still basically fine. > because for most modal income people in europe, electric cars are simply not feasible Purchase price, or price per km? Because that's a very important difference. Electric is already better on the latter, even if battery costs fail to get cheaper with more scale.

favsq 4y ago
>Rental cars for the occasional exceptions, ownership for whoever has to use them regularly, that's still basically fine. I'm really looking forward to the government knowing and controlling where I can go!
- ben_w 4y ago
  The latter is not causally connected to the former.
  - favsq 4y ago
    oh we are in a covid lockdown. you can't get on this bus! oh it says here you have emitted a lot of co2 this year. you can't rent this car until next year! oh you were in an anti-goverment demonstration a few months ago so we know that you are headed to another one. you can't move from your 15-minute city! you really think these are hypotheticals?
    - ben_w 4y ago
      > oh we are in a covid lockdown. you can't get on this bus! Around here that seemed to be by virtue of the bus drivers not showing up because they didn't want to get ill. Nowt to do with whatever conspiracy theory you've been mainlining. Also no causal connection to electric vehicles etc. > oh it says here you have emitted a lot of co2 this year. you can't rent this car until next year! Definitely hypothetical. Also electric vehicles can be rented. Quite a few go past my flat each day. So again, no causal connection to electric vehicles etc. > oh you were in an anti-goverment demonstration a few months ago so we know that you are headed to another one. you can't move from your 15-minute city! The first part of that is being done (or at least proposed) without any connection at all to electric cars or public transit. The second part — the idea that 15 minute cities are about control — is a propaganda piece designed to rile up people like you. The reality is they're merely a fairly mild proposed planning policy to put stuff people want near those people who want that stuff, they have nothing in them about preventing people from leaving when they want to go further.

mamonster 4y ago

"Spain on how politicians are willing to sacrifice a country to please pensioners". Funnily enough that is exactly what Macron is also doing, because the under-discussed part of the current reform is that it does not put in question the current pensions which are absolutely massive based on what french pensioners paid in. But of course when you bring it up these people will try to gaslight you into the idea they built the society you enjoy today, unironically pretending that when they entered the job market in like 1965-70 Europe was still in ruins after WW2, and you simply don't want to work hard like they did.

lakomen 4y ago

Germany spending 100 Billion Euro to buy weapons... how many houses would that have been? 1 billion is 1000 million 100000 houses if one house costs 1 million to build, which it doesn't. I don't agree with your pensioners hate. You will be old too some day, if you live that long. And you'll be happy to not have to filter through trash cans so you can afford to survive.

spaniard89277 4y ago
Oh, so stating the fact that they rule everything and that the housing problem perpetuates because of them is hate? In Spain most housing stock is in hands of pensioners, boomers and public employees (with a lot of overlap). What should I do? Pretend this isn't happening?