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Is either that or Germany letting their automakers that have not been able to adapt to the new EV era just die... and nobody wants to see what is that impact of

Is either that or Germany letting their automakers that have not been able to adapt to the new EV era just die... and nobody wants to see what is that impact of that over the whole European economy...

wongarsu 4y ago
According to [1] Volkswagen was the third largest producer of EVs in 2022, only behind BYD and Tesla. And BMW and Mercedes Benz both are in the top 10. It's not like German automakers have been sitting on their hands or would just die. The problem is not so much the automakers themselves but their suppliers. Those employ far more people, and EVs just don't need a lot of those parts. 1: https://www.ev-volumes.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/WW-S3-12-2022.png https://www.ev-volumes.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/WW-S3-...
izacus 4y ago
All the big German automakers have launched good EVs by now and they've been successful on the market as well in Europe. Which ones are you talking about?
- censor_me 4y ago
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- comandillos 4y ago
  They provide good alternatives, indeed, but Tesla is still the most sold brand in Europe, and anyone living in Central Europe cannot deny that Tesla is by far the most dominant EV brand. The reason behind it is that there is pretty much nothing in that price range that offers the same as a Model 3 or Y... However, Tesla has sold more vehicles than the ones they can provide support to, so all their service centers are collapsed due to their dealership policy... The European brands need to be more competitive, and although they are on good track for it, I think they are a bit late to the game. Is either that or people noticing that the after sales support of Tesla is inexistent and they start to value the perks of the legacy automakers.
  - izacus 4y ago
    That's because European brands offer more models so your top graphs are fragmented. This is how market competition looks like - having a choice of models and brands not just a single Tesla 3. On top 10, European brands together vastly outsold Tesla - VAG group for example outsold all Tesla models in EU last year.
arlcode 4y ago
It's not the automakers. Those have long since started to transition to BEVs and do offer some attractive options which are produced at scale and can often be seen on the streets where I am (not near any of the OEM headquarters). They have also mostly stopped R&D on ICE technology The issue is with the suppliers and suppliers of suppliers which are a backbone of German industry and some of which cannot transition away ICE technology. Of course e-fuels are not going to safe them anyway but their lobbying caused this.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  The automakers did put up initial resistance, some Japanese brands still are. But this particular political compromise is just a libertarian party needing a workaround to avoid to be seen banning something that everyone knows will be obsolete by that time anyway. The EV transition is accelerating, this is just the minimum that could get cross EU support in law today. But individual countries already have their own phase outs.

wongarsu 4y ago

According to [1] Volkswagen was the third largest producer of EVs in 2022, only behind BYD and Tesla. And BMW and Mercedes Benz both are in the top 10. It's not like German automakers have been sitting on their hands or would just die. The problem is not so much the automakers themselves but their suppliers. Those employ far more people, and EVs just don't need a lot of those parts. 1: https://www.ev-volumes.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/WW-S3-12-2022.png https://www.ev-volumes.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/WW-S3-...

izacus 4y ago

All the big German automakers have launched good EVs by now and they've been successful on the market as well in Europe. Which ones are you talking about?

censor_me 4y ago
[dead]
comandillos 4y ago
They provide good alternatives, indeed, but Tesla is still the most sold brand in Europe, and anyone living in Central Europe cannot deny that Tesla is by far the most dominant EV brand. The reason behind it is that there is pretty much nothing in that price range that offers the same as a Model 3 or Y... However, Tesla has sold more vehicles than the ones they can provide support to, so all their service centers are collapsed due to their dealership policy... The European brands need to be more competitive, and although they are on good track for it, I think they are a bit late to the game. Is either that or people noticing that the after sales support of Tesla is inexistent and they start to value the perks of the legacy automakers.
- izacus 4y ago
  That's because European brands offer more models so your top graphs are fragmented. This is how market competition looks like - having a choice of models and brands not just a single Tesla 3. On top 10, European brands together vastly outsold Tesla - VAG group for example outsold all Tesla models in EU last year.

arlcode 4y ago

It's not the automakers. Those have long since started to transition to BEVs and do offer some attractive options which are produced at scale and can often be seen on the streets where I am (not near any of the OEM headquarters). They have also mostly stopped R&D on ICE technology The issue is with the suppliers and suppliers of suppliers which are a backbone of German industry and some of which cannot transition away ICE technology. Of course e-fuels are not going to safe them anyway but their lobbying caused this.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
The automakers did put up initial resistance, some Japanese brands still are. But this particular political compromise is just a libertarian party needing a workaround to avoid to be seen banning something that everyone knows will be obsolete by that time anyway. The EV transition is accelerating, this is just the minimum that could get cross EU support in law today. But individual countries already have their own phase outs.