3 ms·

I wish it was that simple. I use a 4th gen iPod touch, every day, only to listen to music while commuting. Just this week I needed an interval timer, and though

I wish it was that simple. I use a 4th gen iPod touch, every day, only to listen to music while commuting. Just this week I needed an interval timer, and thought that I could just install one on my iPod. Nope - AppStore showed about 12 results for "interval timer", but none of them were installable on iOS 6. I thought then I will look for an online interval timer, and use it through wifi. After clicking through the first 3 pages of Google results, Safari could not make any of the pages usable. Either loaded a blank screen, or the interface didn't react to the touches - I guess some "fancy" new features that are too modern for the old Safari. I could rant about loading 10MB JS on a typical lightweight site that has the same visuals and functionality as 15 years ago, but now it makes Chrome cry on a modern machine... but I won't do that. Anyway this is how I gave up having an interval timer on my iPod. Maybe my plan was too grandiose to begin with. Neither new software, nor old software.

kaba0 4y ago
That device is 13 years old. It could definitely do more than what it currently can, but I don’t think it is reasonable to expect such a long support period, especially that mobile hardware underwent a complete metamorphosis in the meanwhile. It is reasonable to expect an iphone 14 to be usable as a general purpose device until the next major breakthrough, because year-to-year upgrades are mostly incremental nowadays, but say the first iphone is incomparable on the hardware front to a modern smartphone.
- not_your_vase 4y ago
  Support? It doesn't need any action to let a 13 years old timer run on it. But removing the applications from the AppStore, it does need action, and investment of money and time. Keeping the support would be easier for Apple... but they don't want. Frankly, there hasn't been a revolutionary breakthrough in the field of interval timers' technical design in the past decade that would warrant such a ridiculous obsolescence. We are literally talking about "hello world" level applications, that can't run on the device - not because the hardware or software isn't capable.
  - TheNewsIsHere 4y ago
    I don’t disagree with anything you said. At the same time, speaking beyond Apple, how long is too long to keep various code, infrastructure, etc around and supported? Apple dropped support for 32-bit apps being published awhile back because they dropped 32-bit executable support from the OS. Should they keep the binaries around and available forever? Eventually the old stuff becomes something you have to engineer around. And eventually that becomes too costly to justify. Again, I agree with you, but businesses have to justify their spend [insert quippy VC jokes here]. I’d like to see a non-commercial approach to solve issues like this very broadly. For example you could legislate that device manufacturers over a certain size retain device software and firmware, and that it all be open sourced after a certain duration. If you go out of business, you transfer it to a trust setup to maintain access to such things. (I admit this is a simplistic example, but it’s not intended to be a full solution.)
    - not_your_vase 4y ago
      The AppStore is a glorified FTP server, with a slow html frontend. It's not exactly the marvel of engineering, and not an awful lot to keep around. Jailbreak community keeps online respositories for free (minus a handful of ads)... but Apple, the world's most cash-padded company, can't afford to keep a RPi4 running in the corner, serving old iOS apps? Give me a break. (I do work on complex embedded operating systems, with decades long support contracts. We are far from Apple size, I must admit, but I do know what this work involves. Keeping the lights on for such systems is not such a huge expense as everyone pretends it to be. RPi4 is an exaggeration, but not a huge one.) I don't expect new stuff to work on old systems, I'm not crazy. I remember, many years ago, someone complained Steve Jobs via email about some iOS update, that he didn't like. And Steve's response was along the lines of "Does the system still do everything what it did when you bought it? Yes? Then have a nice day." Apple does not give such responses anymore. They avoid answering these. With a reason. But don't get me completely wrong. I bought my iPod 11 or 12 years ago (I don't even remember), and this is literally my oldest tech that I still use every day. This tells a lot. But my blood boils when I think about how much better it used to be, and how much better it could be... only if Apple wanted it to be.

kaba0 4y ago

That device is 13 years old. It could definitely do more than what it currently can, but I don’t think it is reasonable to expect such a long support period, especially that mobile hardware underwent a complete metamorphosis in the meanwhile. It is reasonable to expect an iphone 14 to be usable as a general purpose device until the next major breakthrough, because year-to-year upgrades are mostly incremental nowadays, but say the first iphone is incomparable on the hardware front to a modern smartphone.

not_your_vase 4y ago
Support? It doesn't need any action to let a 13 years old timer run on it. But removing the applications from the AppStore, it does need action, and investment of money and time. Keeping the support would be easier for Apple... but they don't want. Frankly, there hasn't been a revolutionary breakthrough in the field of interval timers' technical design in the past decade that would warrant such a ridiculous obsolescence. We are literally talking about "hello world" level applications, that can't run on the device - not because the hardware or software isn't capable.
- TheNewsIsHere 4y ago
  I don’t disagree with anything you said. At the same time, speaking beyond Apple, how long is too long to keep various code, infrastructure, etc around and supported? Apple dropped support for 32-bit apps being published awhile back because they dropped 32-bit executable support from the OS. Should they keep the binaries around and available forever? Eventually the old stuff becomes something you have to engineer around. And eventually that becomes too costly to justify. Again, I agree with you, but businesses have to justify their spend [insert quippy VC jokes here]. I’d like to see a non-commercial approach to solve issues like this very broadly. For example you could legislate that device manufacturers over a certain size retain device software and firmware, and that it all be open sourced after a certain duration. If you go out of business, you transfer it to a trust setup to maintain access to such things. (I admit this is a simplistic example, but it’s not intended to be a full solution.)
  - not_your_vase 4y ago
    The AppStore is a glorified FTP server, with a slow html frontend. It's not exactly the marvel of engineering, and not an awful lot to keep around. Jailbreak community keeps online respositories for free (minus a handful of ads)... but Apple, the world's most cash-padded company, can't afford to keep a RPi4 running in the corner, serving old iOS apps? Give me a break. (I do work on complex embedded operating systems, with decades long support contracts. We are far from Apple size, I must admit, but I do know what this work involves. Keeping the lights on for such systems is not such a huge expense as everyone pretends it to be. RPi4 is an exaggeration, but not a huge one.) I don't expect new stuff to work on old systems, I'm not crazy. I remember, many years ago, someone complained Steve Jobs via email about some iOS update, that he didn't like. And Steve's response was along the lines of "Does the system still do everything what it did when you bought it? Yes? Then have a nice day." Apple does not give such responses anymore. They avoid answering these. With a reason. But don't get me completely wrong. I bought my iPod 11 or 12 years ago (I don't even remember), and this is literally my oldest tech that I still use every day. This tells a lot. But my blood boils when I think about how much better it used to be, and how much better it could be... only if Apple wanted it to be.