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A fun fact: Patreon had hold a survey for creators, asking which features they need. https://blog.patreon.com/the-first-ever-patreon-creator-census https://blo

A fun fact: Patreon had hold a survey for creators, asking which features they need. https://blog.patreon.com/the-first-ever-patreon-creator-census https://blog.patreon.com/the-first-ever-patreon-creator-cens... Crypto is the only one creators voted *against*. Yes, Patreon creators, where a lot NSFW content comes from, voted against cryptos. I wonder how they'll think when Visa/Mastercard threat Patreon to ban them (which is just sooner or later).

themitigating 4y ago
Why would they vote against a feature? Why not just say it's not a priority or "would be nice"
- raincole 4y ago
  Crypto fearmongering is as true as crypto frenzy.
  - grumple 4y ago
    Name a cryptocurrency that provides fraud protection, recovery of stolen funds/accounts, and whose value is close to the dollar in stability.
  - hnbad 4y ago
    It's not fearmongering to point out that association with crypto can be detrimental in itself, especially back then when every brand was trying to get onto the crypto and NFT hype train. Features are never purely additive, they can also be transformative or even detrimental. Adding crypto support to Patreon would have changed what Patreon is by attracting different people. Regardless of whether any of the people already using Patreon might have benefited from crypto, it would also have attracted people who would specifically be interested in Patreon because of the crypto support. Like it or not "people whose adoption of Patreon hinges on it adding support for crypto" is a very specific demographic and mostly people they probably didn't want to be associated with. You can call it guilt by assocation or digital NIMBYism but it would have changed a lot more than just having another option for payouts and donations.
  - illiarian 4y ago
    Let's say I'm a creator. I pay for my food in dollars. For my rent in dollars. For my clothes in dollars. For my equipment and supplies in dollars. What would I do with crypto? Okay, let's say I get paid in crypto. I still need to convert that to dollars. Price fluctuation of bitcoin is such that if I was paid 1 dollar worth of bitcoin last year, it would be less than 50 cents by the end of the year.
    - TimJRobinson 4y ago
      You can get paid in USDC and can transfer that to and from your bank account as quick as banks will allow, or pay people directly with it.
      - illiarian 4y ago
        > You can get paid in USDC and So, as always every discussion about "but crypto" almost immediately devolves to "not crypto, but a very specific coin that seems to be more-or-less okay at this particular point in time" > or pay people directly with it Which people? The dozen or so places in the entire world that accept crypto?
        TimJRobinson 4y ago
        Its US dollars and you can transfer it to anyone that is capable of downloading a wallet app. If you want to spend at stores you can use any number of debit cards or just wait till visa integrates it which is coming soon [1] I don't understand why you want to be so hostile towards it, it's literally the solution to this problem. 1: https://usa.visa.com/solutions/crypto/auto-payments-for-self-custodial-wallets.html https://usa.visa.com/solutions/crypto/auto-payments-for-self...
        illiarian 4y ago
        So let's just skip all the unnecessary useless steps and intermediaries in between, and let those cryptoi holders that are so willing to pay those artist just use those debit cards and visa integrations to pay the creators in actual dollars.
- eurasiantiger 4y ago
  This particular one: because it would 100% get used for money laundering, which would get the platform cut off from traditional banking and could make it extremely difficult to get a paycheck.
- thot_experiment 4y ago
  It wouldn't be nice though. It would bring grifters and scammers to the platform.
- birracerveza 4y ago
  Because crypto is scary.
- dspillett 4y ago
  Perhaps the concern that they'll be compelled (by user demand) to use the facility if present whether they want to or not? Not that the question is “creators having the ability to accept payments in cryptocurrency on Patreon” and not “Patreon accepting payments in cryptocurrency” – it would be something the creators would need to implement and manage. They might not want to be exposed to the volatility of cryptocurrency values.
- brabel 4y ago
  Many reasons, but no one mentioned one that I think is probably the case for many of them: many cryptos, including the most popular, Bitcoin, are a complete disaster for the environment. At a time when everyone wants to do their part in combating climate change, I would oppose the use crypto for this reason alone, even to my own detriment.
roenxi 4y ago
That is both funny and interesting. But I suspect it also says more about starving artists' political opinions/financial savvy than what the future looks like. Making it easy for people to send you money seems like it'll be the winning equilibrium long term. If Patreon doesn't do it, someone will. Probably a porn site somewhere underdeveloped accepting Monero or something. Cutting power away from financial intermediaries just has to be better for other market participants long term and that makes the shape of the future easier to guess at.
trollied 4y ago
Why would Visa/Mastercard ban Patreon?
- toxicFork 4y ago
  Nsfw
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  Same reason they banned pornhub, I assume.
- masklinn 4y ago
  Fair amount of NSFW creators?
dns_snek 4y ago
> Crypto is the only one creators voted against. > Yes, Patreon creators, where a lot NSFW content comes from, voted against cryptos. This is a gross misrepresentation. Quoted from your link: > In the Census, 68% of visual artists and 50% of writers were opposed to creators having the ability to accept payments in cryptocurrency on Patreon, while 39% of image, 34% of audio/music, and 31% of video creators indicated it would be a “crucial” or “nice to have” capability. Across creator types, about a third say they “don’t care.”
- raincole 4y ago
  ...how? If you're opposing the "where a lot of NSFW content comes from" part, I apologize for the wording, but it's true. I just said a lot of NSFW content comes from Patreon. I didn't say they're the majority. If you're opposing the "voted against cryptos" part, then: https://live-patreon-blog.pantheonsite.io/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Respondent-Interest-in-Crypto-Payments.jpg https://live-patreon-blog.pantheonsite.io/wp-content/uploads...
  - dns_snek 4y ago
    I'm opposing the "voted against crypto" part. I would assume that NSFW creators largely fall under the "Images" category where only 26% voted against the idea.
rcxdude 4y ago
It's a good example of how cryptos have managed to get an absolutely terrible reputation amongst potential users, even the users worst served by the current financial system. It's not entirely undeserved: the sheer quantity of grift and hubris in the crypto ecosystem is absolutely harming it, and I don't blame someone for not wanting anything to do with it, even if it would solve problems for them. The same happened even more with NFTs: they were supposedly aimed directly at artists and yet because the first most artists heard of them was other people ripping off their art to sell at inflated prices because of the hype cycle (and the most valuable NFTs being shitty paper doll generic art) it 100% backfired and now most of the artist community absolutely hates NFTs and anything to do with them (this poll happened at the peak of that, as well). If you manage to make most of your potential users despise you and your product then something is seriously wrong.
- illiarian 4y ago
  > even if it would solve problems for them. It wouldn't. At the end of the day you need to pay for stuff in your life: food, rent, clothes. None of those things are paid in crypto. All of them are paid in actual real money. When the price of crypto can go up and down hundreds of percents per day this makes it a very bad substitute for money.
  - TimJRobinson 4y ago
    You can use USDC or any number of other stablecoins. You don't ever have to touch a volatile asset if you don't want to.
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    Food, clothes and all the other stuff can be paid with crypto. Rent is probably harder, but I guess when you live in a place like Dubai that also won't be a problem (houses are sold/bought with crypto there). If you want you can also get paid in crypto, so it's not as hard as you might think.
    - illiarian 4y ago
toyg 4y ago
That's because they don't need an unregulated security; they need a neutral and reliable payment processor. The world doesn't need crypto, it needs to turn Visa/MasterCard/Amex into utilities.

themitigating 4y ago

Why would they vote against a feature? Why not just say it's not a priority or "would be nice"

raincole 4y ago
Crypto fearmongering is as true as crypto frenzy.
- grumple 4y ago
  Name a cryptocurrency that provides fraud protection, recovery of stolen funds/accounts, and whose value is close to the dollar in stability.
- hnbad 4y ago
  It's not fearmongering to point out that association with crypto can be detrimental in itself, especially back then when every brand was trying to get onto the crypto and NFT hype train. Features are never purely additive, they can also be transformative or even detrimental. Adding crypto support to Patreon would have changed what Patreon is by attracting different people. Regardless of whether any of the people already using Patreon might have benefited from crypto, it would also have attracted people who would specifically be interested in Patreon because of the crypto support. Like it or not "people whose adoption of Patreon hinges on it adding support for crypto" is a very specific demographic and mostly people they probably didn't want to be associated with. You can call it guilt by assocation or digital NIMBYism but it would have changed a lot more than just having another option for payouts and donations.
- illiarian 4y ago
  Let's say I'm a creator. I pay for my food in dollars. For my rent in dollars. For my clothes in dollars. For my equipment and supplies in dollars. What would I do with crypto? Okay, let's say I get paid in crypto. I still need to convert that to dollars. Price fluctuation of bitcoin is such that if I was paid 1 dollar worth of bitcoin last year, it would be less than 50 cents by the end of the year.
  - TimJRobinson 4y ago
    You can get paid in USDC and can transfer that to and from your bank account as quick as banks will allow, or pay people directly with it.
    - illiarian 4y ago
      > You can get paid in USDC and So, as always every discussion about "but crypto" almost immediately devolves to "not crypto, but a very specific coin that seems to be more-or-less okay at this particular point in time" > or pay people directly with it Which people? The dozen or so places in the entire world that accept crypto?
      - TimJRobinson 4y ago
        Its US dollars and you can transfer it to anyone that is capable of downloading a wallet app. If you want to spend at stores you can use any number of debit cards or just wait till visa integrates it which is coming soon [1] I don't understand why you want to be so hostile towards it, it's literally the solution to this problem. 1: https://usa.visa.com/solutions/crypto/auto-payments-for-self-custodial-wallets.html https://usa.visa.com/solutions/crypto/auto-payments-for-self...
        illiarian 4y ago
        So let's just skip all the unnecessary useless steps and intermediaries in between, and let those cryptoi holders that are so willing to pay those artist just use those debit cards and visa integrations to pay the creators in actual dollars.
eurasiantiger 4y ago
This particular one: because it would 100% get used for money laundering, which would get the platform cut off from traditional banking and could make it extremely difficult to get a paycheck.
thot_experiment 4y ago
It wouldn't be nice though. It would bring grifters and scammers to the platform.
birracerveza 4y ago
Because crypto is scary.
dspillett 4y ago
Perhaps the concern that they'll be compelled (by user demand) to use the facility if present whether they want to or not? Not that the question is “creators having the ability to accept payments in cryptocurrency on Patreon” and not “Patreon accepting payments in cryptocurrency” – it would be something the creators would need to implement and manage. They might not want to be exposed to the volatility of cryptocurrency values.
brabel 4y ago
Many reasons, but no one mentioned one that I think is probably the case for many of them: many cryptos, including the most popular, Bitcoin, are a complete disaster for the environment. At a time when everyone wants to do their part in combating climate change, I would oppose the use crypto for this reason alone, even to my own detriment.

roenxi 4y ago

That is both funny and interesting. But I suspect it also says more about starving artists' political opinions/financial savvy than what the future looks like. Making it easy for people to send you money seems like it'll be the winning equilibrium long term. If Patreon doesn't do it, someone will. Probably a porn site somewhere underdeveloped accepting Monero or something. Cutting power away from financial intermediaries just has to be better for other market participants long term and that makes the shape of the future easier to guess at.

trollied 4y ago

Why would Visa/Mastercard ban Patreon?

toxicFork 4y ago
Nsfw
sebzim4500 4y ago
Same reason they banned pornhub, I assume.
masklinn 4y ago
Fair amount of NSFW creators?

dns_snek 4y ago

> Crypto is the only one creators voted against. > Yes, Patreon creators, where a lot NSFW content comes from, voted against cryptos. This is a gross misrepresentation. Quoted from your link: > In the Census, 68% of visual artists and 50% of writers were opposed to creators having the ability to accept payments in cryptocurrency on Patreon, while 39% of image, 34% of audio/music, and 31% of video creators indicated it would be a “crucial” or “nice to have” capability. Across creator types, about a third say they “don’t care.”

raincole 4y ago
...how? If you're opposing the "where a lot of NSFW content comes from" part, I apologize for the wording, but it's true. I just said a lot of NSFW content comes from Patreon. I didn't say they're the majority. If you're opposing the "voted against cryptos" part, then: https://live-patreon-blog.pantheonsite.io/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Respondent-Interest-in-Crypto-Payments.jpg https://live-patreon-blog.pantheonsite.io/wp-content/uploads...
- dns_snek 4y ago
  I'm opposing the "voted against crypto" part. I would assume that NSFW creators largely fall under the "Images" category where only 26% voted against the idea.

rcxdude 4y ago

It's a good example of how cryptos have managed to get an absolutely terrible reputation amongst potential users, even the users worst served by the current financial system. It's not entirely undeserved: the sheer quantity of grift and hubris in the crypto ecosystem is absolutely harming it, and I don't blame someone for not wanting anything to do with it, even if it would solve problems for them. The same happened even more with NFTs: they were supposedly aimed directly at artists and yet because the first most artists heard of them was other people ripping off their art to sell at inflated prices because of the hype cycle (and the most valuable NFTs being shitty paper doll generic art) it 100% backfired and now most of the artist community absolutely hates NFTs and anything to do with them (this poll happened at the peak of that, as well). If you manage to make most of your potential users despise you and your product then something is seriously wrong.

illiarian 4y ago
> even if it would solve problems for them. It wouldn't. At the end of the day you need to pay for stuff in your life: food, rent, clothes. None of those things are paid in crypto. All of them are paid in actual real money. When the price of crypto can go up and down hundreds of percents per day this makes it a very bad substitute for money.
- TimJRobinson 4y ago
  You can use USDC or any number of other stablecoins. You don't ever have to touch a volatile asset if you don't want to.
- koonsolo 4y ago
  Food, clothes and all the other stuff can be paid with crypto. Rent is probably harder, but I guess when you live in a place like Dubai that also won't be a problem (houses are sold/bought with crypto there). If you want you can also get paid in crypto, so it's not as hard as you might think.
  - illiarian 4y ago

toyg 4y ago

That's because they don't need an unregulated security; they need a neutral and reliable payment processor. The world doesn't need crypto, it needs to turn Visa/MasterCard/Amex into utilities.