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I disagree with a lot of what you are saying. Firstly I wouldn't label myself any way, neither pessimist or optimist. But you can be amazed at what has happene

I disagree with a lot of what you are saying. Firstly I wouldn't label myself any way, neither pessimist or optimist. But you can be amazed at what has happened throughout the whole history and what humans have built, and be optimistic and excited about the future, and that we can handle the problems thrown at us and be completely realistic at the same time. And even if there was some way to accurately judge whether optimists or pessimists view the World more accurately, it doesn't mean you can't still view the world accurately and be an optimist at the same time. It might just be that optimists on average are more likely to view things in a better light than they are, but it doesn't apply to every single optimist. There is truth, but also even bad truth like a problem coming your way you can treat it as an exciting challenge or a nuisance.

HervalFreire 4y ago
https://radiolab.org/episodes/91618-lying-to-ourselves https://radiolab.org/episodes/91618-lying-to-ourselves What I'm saying is not something I made up. It's actual science. Listen to the podcast if you have the time. It's derived from actual multitudes of scientific research done on thousands of people. It's only 12 minutes and it's really good and it will change your perception of the importance of knowing the truth. This is real. And the experiments cited in this podcast are only a fraction of the psychological experiments used to confirm this theory. It's not about a matter of your opinion, it's science. But even if it's real it doesn't matter does it? Because it's all about your perception and your ability to delude yourself.
- mewpmewp2 4y ago
  I was responding to your points. Is there any other specific point you want me to respond to? Because the arguments are that you can overestimate your capabilities or be overconfident to perform better, which I agree with, but my point is that none of it is indicative that someone having generally a positive view of the world necessarily implies that they would have less grasp on reality. I think the experiments are not evidence that one has to "delude" themselves to be positive or happy. Because the end of your post implied that there must be at least some level of delusion going on.
  - HervalFreire 4y ago
    >but my point is that none of it is indicative that someone having generally a positive view of the world necessarily implies that they would have less grasp on reality. From the podcast: Joanna: The people who were the most realistic, that actually see the world exactly as it is, tend to be slightly more depressed than others. Robert: Time and time again, researchers have found that depressed people lie less. Ruben: They see all the pain in the world. How horrible people are with each other and they tell you everything about themselves. What their weaknesses are, what terrible things they've done to other people and the problem is they're right.... That one research study they used as an example is one out of multitudes used to formulate the conclusion I cited above. In short: People who tend to be realistic tend to be depressed. People who lie to themselves tend to be happy. I mean it's obvious that this point contradicts your claim. Ask yourself, are you lying to yourself right now? Are you currently being optimistically delusional about what was actually stated in the podcast? Hard to say.
    - mewpmewp2 4y ago
      It may be that on average "realistic" people are more depressed, but it doesn't mean an individual "realistic" person can't be generally happy. It's only an "average". You can have a set with average of -20, but it could be a range of -60 to 20, so you can have 20s in the set while on average the set is below 0. > They see all the pain in the world. How horrible people are with each other and they tell you everything about themselves. What their weaknesses are, what terrible things they've done to other people and the problem is they're right There's both negatives and positives in the World. You can accept the negatives and appreciate the positives. Humans have suffered throughout the whole duration they have existed as species. You don't have to be depressed because of that. You can appreciate all what humanity has built, and where we have reached in our quest to advance and innovate. We are discovering more and more every day. You can focus on your curiosity. I have no problem discussing those topics or noticing those issues. > What their weaknesses are You can accept your weaknesses and either work on them or consider them not worthy to be worked on and focus on your strengths instead. Some weaknesses are worth working on, others are not and you can just accept that they exist. > what terrible things they've done to other people and the problem is they're right Everyone makes mistakes. No point in staying around feeling guilty about it. Move on and do your best. > I mean it's obvious that this point contradicts your claim. Ask yourself, are you lying to yourself right now? Are you currently being optimistically delusional about what was actually stated in the podcast? Hard to say. It's not contradicting, it's just taking one seemingly unhealthy mindset, that seems to correlate with certain type of realism, but overall you can have an healthy mindset about realism where you accept the bad and appreciate the good. The podcast is missing this healthy type of acceptance and appreciation of truth.
- mewpmewp2 4y ago
  Okay, listening to the podcast. I understand your point much better now, that seems like a very interesting episode, thank you for that. Like if there are some unpleasant truths that if you don't believe to be true would make your life much easier. But the questionnaire on the streets - to be fair, if I were to answer "no" there, it doesn't mean I would be lying to myself, I might only be lying to the interviewer, for obvious reasons.
- mewpmewp2 4y ago
  I mean it's very interesting topic, but there's many things to take a part or consider here. Visualising success is a recommended activity for instance, but it doesn't necessarily mean lying to oneself, it's just preparing yourself, going through what is upcoming.

HervalFreire 4y ago

https://radiolab.org/episodes/91618-lying-to-ourselves https://radiolab.org/episodes/91618-lying-to-ourselves What I'm saying is not something I made up. It's actual science. Listen to the podcast if you have the time. It's derived from actual multitudes of scientific research done on thousands of people. It's only 12 minutes and it's really good and it will change your perception of the importance of knowing the truth. This is real. And the experiments cited in this podcast are only a fraction of the psychological experiments used to confirm this theory. It's not about a matter of your opinion, it's science. But even if it's real it doesn't matter does it? Because it's all about your perception and your ability to delude yourself.

mewpmewp2 4y ago
I was responding to your points. Is there any other specific point you want me to respond to? Because the arguments are that you can overestimate your capabilities or be overconfident to perform better, which I agree with, but my point is that none of it is indicative that someone having generally a positive view of the world necessarily implies that they would have less grasp on reality. I think the experiments are not evidence that one has to "delude" themselves to be positive or happy. Because the end of your post implied that there must be at least some level of delusion going on.
- HervalFreire 4y ago
  >but my point is that none of it is indicative that someone having generally a positive view of the world necessarily implies that they would have less grasp on reality. From the podcast: Joanna: The people who were the most realistic, that actually see the world exactly as it is, tend to be slightly more depressed than others. Robert: Time and time again, researchers have found that depressed people lie less. Ruben: They see all the pain in the world. How horrible people are with each other and they tell you everything about themselves. What their weaknesses are, what terrible things they've done to other people and the problem is they're right.... That one research study they used as an example is one out of multitudes used to formulate the conclusion I cited above. In short: People who tend to be realistic tend to be depressed. People who lie to themselves tend to be happy. I mean it's obvious that this point contradicts your claim. Ask yourself, are you lying to yourself right now? Are you currently being optimistically delusional about what was actually stated in the podcast? Hard to say.
  - mewpmewp2 4y ago
    It may be that on average "realistic" people are more depressed, but it doesn't mean an individual "realistic" person can't be generally happy. It's only an "average". You can have a set with average of -20, but it could be a range of -60 to 20, so you can have 20s in the set while on average the set is below 0. > They see all the pain in the world. How horrible people are with each other and they tell you everything about themselves. What their weaknesses are, what terrible things they've done to other people and the problem is they're right There's both negatives and positives in the World. You can accept the negatives and appreciate the positives. Humans have suffered throughout the whole duration they have existed as species. You don't have to be depressed because of that. You can appreciate all what humanity has built, and where we have reached in our quest to advance and innovate. We are discovering more and more every day. You can focus on your curiosity. I have no problem discussing those topics or noticing those issues. > What their weaknesses are You can accept your weaknesses and either work on them or consider them not worthy to be worked on and focus on your strengths instead. Some weaknesses are worth working on, others are not and you can just accept that they exist. > what terrible things they've done to other people and the problem is they're right Everyone makes mistakes. No point in staying around feeling guilty about it. Move on and do your best. > I mean it's obvious that this point contradicts your claim. Ask yourself, are you lying to yourself right now? Are you currently being optimistically delusional about what was actually stated in the podcast? Hard to say. It's not contradicting, it's just taking one seemingly unhealthy mindset, that seems to correlate with certain type of realism, but overall you can have an healthy mindset about realism where you accept the bad and appreciate the good. The podcast is missing this healthy type of acceptance and appreciation of truth.
mewpmewp2 4y ago
Okay, listening to the podcast. I understand your point much better now, that seems like a very interesting episode, thank you for that. Like if there are some unpleasant truths that if you don't believe to be true would make your life much easier. But the questionnaire on the streets - to be fair, if I were to answer "no" there, it doesn't mean I would be lying to myself, I might only be lying to the interviewer, for obvious reasons.
mewpmewp2 4y ago
I mean it's very interesting topic, but there's many things to take a part or consider here. Visualising success is a recommended activity for instance, but it doesn't necessarily mean lying to oneself, it's just preparing yourself, going through what is upcoming.