4 ms·

>transition is something for which you are presented the full pros and cons What you describe is how it should be. Unfortunately, that's not how it is[0]. But

by snvzz 4y ago

>transition is something for which you are presented the full pros and cons What you describe is how it should be. Unfortunately, that's not how it is[0]. But this is very uncomfortable[1], so we look the other way. 0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O3MzPeomqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O3MzPeomqs 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCH-bUFR3WM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCH-bUFR3WM

asherah 4y ago
respectfully, i have no intentions of listening to jordan b peterson, in the same way i have no intentions of reading a stormfront article. skimming the transcript, it looks like this person was presented with the full list of effects - is this not what i described? the ground reality is that if you go to your local planned parenthood or family doctor they will tell you all of the side effects you will experience on hrt; i have 3 different packets of information from doing this, all of which stress the ways in which my body will change on hrt i have no anecdotal proof yet for surgery but i can only assume you get told about possible complications that are reasonably expected
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- skrebbel 4y ago
  I think your comment would've been stronger without the Stormfront reference. I agree that Peterson is a tiresome character but he's not a Nazi. Putting him in the same box as Stormfront is like putting Bernie in the same box as Stalin.
  - Kbelicius 4y ago
    GP did not put Peterson in a box labeled "Nazis". He put him in a box labeled "people whose opinion I do not care to hear" and stormfront happens to be there too. For all we know Bernie and Stalin could be in that box too.
    - Chris2048 4y ago
      But conveniently, the example chosen just happens to be one of few well known Nazi/WS publications? It just happened to be Stormfront, but could just have well been Daily mail, or El Reg?
Quarrelsome 4y ago
Bear in mind that the amount of people that are trans are hella tiny and the amount of people that are trans and de-transition are hella tiny of hella tiny. That Jorden Peterson decides to dedicate two entire videos to the subject implies a bit of a bias.
- snvzz 4y ago
  What's interesting is not that there's few de-transitioners. Rather, what they claim they personally got told before transitioning (very little), what their families were told (unsubstantiated lies about suicide as the alternative to transitioning), as well as how easy and frictionless the formalities of the process were.
  - Quarrelsome 4y ago
    > What's interesting is not that there's few de-transitioners. it is interesting in terms of the amount of press they receive in conservative news feeds. > Rather, what they claim they personally got told before transitioning (very little), what their families were told (unsubstantiated lies about suicide as the alternative to transitioning), as well as how easy and frictionless the formalities of the process were. While these examples pose interesting and relevant questions about the seriousness of transitioning I feel like they're often used as a wedge to justify animosity toward the very few, through the bad examples of the very, very few. When provided without the context of the numbers or any sort of balanced approach it becomes yet another set of misleading angles which have troubling parallels to social outcasts of the past.
    - Chris2048 4y ago
      > the context of the numbers or any sort of balanced approach Why is the number of de-transitioners relevant? If they're too much of a minority to care about, then why is the same not true of the trans community? If, justifiably, you should still care about minorities, then you should care about minorities of minorities too. de-transitioners aren't the counterpoint to transitioning; they are the counterpoint to dogmatic promotion of transitioning over any caution (or treating any caution as a anti-trans dog-whistle/derailment etc). The reason this gets a lot of conservative press is that trans is the new weaponized community, so conservatives get accused of transphobia a lot - defensively pointing out hypocrisy in this behavior is all part of the game, but both sides are playing it. > I feel like they're often used as a wedge to justify animosity toward the very few, through the bad examples of the very, very few But the "wedge" has its basis in the modus of "the very few", or at least its dogmatic members/allies, otherwise the animosity couldn't take hold. You'll have to explain to me what makes a given de-tranition a "bad examples" versus an inconvenient truth.

by snvzz 4y ago

asherah 4y ago

respectfully, i have no intentions of listening to jordan b peterson, in the same way i have no intentions of reading a stormfront article. skimming the transcript, it looks like this person was presented with the full list of effects - is this not what i described? the ground reality is that if you go to your local planned parenthood or family doctor they will tell you all of the side effects you will experience on hrt; i have 3 different packets of information from doing this, all of which stress the ways in which my body will change on hrt i have no anecdotal proof yet for surgery but i can only assume you get told about possible complications that are reasonably expected

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
skrebbel 4y ago
I think your comment would've been stronger without the Stormfront reference. I agree that Peterson is a tiresome character but he's not a Nazi. Putting him in the same box as Stormfront is like putting Bernie in the same box as Stalin.
- Kbelicius 4y ago
  GP did not put Peterson in a box labeled "Nazis". He put him in a box labeled "people whose opinion I do not care to hear" and stormfront happens to be there too. For all we know Bernie and Stalin could be in that box too.
  - Chris2048 4y ago
    But conveniently, the example chosen just happens to be one of few well known Nazi/WS publications? It just happened to be Stormfront, but could just have well been Daily mail, or El Reg?

Quarrelsome 4y ago

Bear in mind that the amount of people that are trans are hella tiny and the amount of people that are trans and de-transition are hella tiny of hella tiny. That Jorden Peterson decides to dedicate two entire videos to the subject implies a bit of a bias.

snvzz 4y ago
What's interesting is not that there's few de-transitioners. Rather, what they claim they personally got told before transitioning (very little), what their families were told (unsubstantiated lies about suicide as the alternative to transitioning), as well as how easy and frictionless the formalities of the process were.
- Quarrelsome 4y ago
  > What's interesting is not that there's few de-transitioners. it is interesting in terms of the amount of press they receive in conservative news feeds. > Rather, what they claim they personally got told before transitioning (very little), what their families were told (unsubstantiated lies about suicide as the alternative to transitioning), as well as how easy and frictionless the formalities of the process were. While these examples pose interesting and relevant questions about the seriousness of transitioning I feel like they're often used as a wedge to justify animosity toward the very few, through the bad examples of the very, very few. When provided without the context of the numbers or any sort of balanced approach it becomes yet another set of misleading angles which have troubling parallels to social outcasts of the past.
  - Chris2048 4y ago
    > the context of the numbers or any sort of balanced approach Why is the number of de-transitioners relevant? If they're too much of a minority to care about, then why is the same not true of the trans community? If, justifiably, you should still care about minorities, then you should care about minorities of minorities too. de-transitioners aren't the counterpoint to transitioning; they are the counterpoint to dogmatic promotion of transitioning over any caution (or treating any caution as a anti-trans dog-whistle/derailment etc). The reason this gets a lot of conservative press is that trans is the new weaponized community, so conservatives get accused of transphobia a lot - defensively pointing out hypocrisy in this behavior is all part of the game, but both sides are playing it. > I feel like they're often used as a wedge to justify animosity toward the very few, through the bad examples of the very, very few But the "wedge" has its basis in the modus of "the very few", or at least its dogmatic members/allies, otherwise the animosity couldn't take hold. You'll have to explain to me what makes a given de-tranition a "bad examples" versus an inconvenient truth.