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by _8j50 4y ago

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lmm 4y ago
> Have you been so brainwashed that you think the US government is more of an enemy than China? The US government has detained or killed many more people like me than China has. I don't think that's brainwashing, that's just the reality. > Why did China hack OPM (every personal data on every fed employee),equifax (credit on all americans) and every major company being hit by their hackers? Probably the same reason the NSA grabs all that data.
- _8j50 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 4y ago
    You've been breaking the site guidelines badly and frequently lately. This is the kind of thing we ban accounts for. I don't want to ban you, so we need you to please stop doing that. Please especially don't cross into personal attack, and don't use HN primarily for political/ideological/national battle. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- justinclift 4y ago
  > ... detained or killed many more people like me than China has. Are Uyghurs included in your count of people China has detained or killed?
  - lmm 4y ago
    Yes, and if we're comparing the overall moral stakes China definitely comes out worse. But if we're talking about the danger to me personally, then the people China is killing are not like me; I'm neither a resident nor a citizen of China.
    - _8j50 4y ago
      But that's just fucking it, the US is not going to abandon its interests so now China is also interested in compromising your safety and liberty. You can't change your mind later after an actual conflict starts, this isn't a game with a reset button. Once a civil war starts, ww3 starts,etc... you're stuck with what you have. Even right now most US corps bow to china's governments demands left and right. Because of Chinese influence. They have spies running out of think thanks and confucius centers in US colleges left and right. Your safety is a precious temporary thing and you are naively working against it.
      - lmm 4y ago
        > But that's just fucking it, the US is not going to abandon its interests so now China is also interested in compromising your safety and liberty. What safety and liberty do I have if the US government can kill or imprison me on a whim? If I'm supposed to shut up and fall into line either way then it doesn't make any difference whose flag is on the flagpole. I think the US has better values and principles than that, on the whole. But if you decide that to fight China you've got to turn into China, and that's the direction that laws like this are going, why would anyone support you? > Even right now most US corps bow to china's governments demands left and right. Because of Chinese influence. They have spies running out of think thanks and confucius centers in US colleges left and right. Again, fewer, less active, and with less backing, than the NSA equivalent.
- HyperSane 4y ago
  > The US government has detained or killed many more people like me Like what?
  - lmm 4y ago
    Julian Assange and Harry Dunn are the examples that immediately come to mind - the latter was apparently not 100% intentional, but the point remains that my fellow citizens apparently have zero recourse against getting killed by US spies, and the US will help them evade justice and face no real consequence for it. I can't imagine a Chinese agent getting away with the same thing, although that's perhaps naive.
    - _8j50 4y ago
      > although that's perhaps naive. Yea it is and it isn't a freaking competition. A chinese agent will not harm you unless there is a reason and even in the west they harm their own dissidents. Julian ans that guy were harmed because they took the fight against the US, are you planning on doing the same? I dare you to go to hong kong and speak up and fight for the liberty if hong kong. And show me just exactly how HK is more free and has a government that will respect your rights more than the US. You talk like China and the US are even comparable. Honestly, you people can downvote me all you want but your naivette is putting me and of course yourself un serious harms way. You stand now enjoying liberty and peace that was hard won and don't consider the stakes.
      - lmm 4y ago
        > Julian ans that guy were harmed because they took the fight against the US, are you planning on doing the same? I dare you to go to hong kong and speak up and fight for the liberty if hong kong. WTF are you talking about? Neither of the people I mentioned ever went to the US. Assange put information that embarrassed the US on the internet, something you and I do about China all the time. > And show me just exactly how HK is more free and has a government that will respect your rights more than the US. You talk like China and the US are even comparable. I just have; HK and China do not get nonresident noncitizens in my country imprisoned or killed; the US does.
linkjuice4all 4y ago
Assuming you’re a US citizen or someone located in a country with an extradition agreement with the US then you’re probably at more risk of the US gov’t messing with your life than China. That doesn’t excuse any government from being terrible but “enemy” is definitely a relative term here.
- _8j50 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    > The US already has all your data thanks to US bigtech and you are fine enough to post on HN Which is why it's so arbitrary to ban a Chinese app that's doing the same thing as all the US big tech apps. It brings into stark relief the attitude of "it's been ok for us for the past decade, but not ok for you at all ever". I'd rather them say "it's not ok for anyone", but that would risk lifestyle funding.
BLKNSLVR 4y ago
No, I'm saying as a citizen of a country that's a member of the five-eyes, I'm more likely to be "reachable" by the US than I am China if I was to, for whatever reason, piss them both off. Some kind of irony hey? (which may be more related to "how the West dies") To be perfectly clear: I'd rather be living under US rule than Chinese, not that it should matter to this discussion.

[flagged]

by _8j50 4y ago

[flagged]

lmm 4y ago

> Have you been so brainwashed that you think the US government is more of an enemy than China? The US government has detained or killed many more people like me than China has. I don't think that's brainwashing, that's just the reality. > Why did China hack OPM (every personal data on every fed employee),equifax (credit on all americans) and every major company being hit by their hackers? Probably the same reason the NSA grabs all that data.

_8j50 4y ago
[flagged]
- dang 4y ago
  You've been breaking the site guidelines badly and frequently lately. This is the kind of thing we ban accounts for. I don't want to ban you, so we need you to please stop doing that. Please especially don't cross into personal attack, and don't use HN primarily for political/ideological/national battle. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
justinclift 4y ago
> ... detained or killed many more people like me than China has. Are Uyghurs included in your count of people China has detained or killed?
- lmm 4y ago
  Yes, and if we're comparing the overall moral stakes China definitely comes out worse. But if we're talking about the danger to me personally, then the people China is killing are not like me; I'm neither a resident nor a citizen of China.
  - _8j50 4y ago
    But that's just fucking it, the US is not going to abandon its interests so now China is also interested in compromising your safety and liberty. You can't change your mind later after an actual conflict starts, this isn't a game with a reset button. Once a civil war starts, ww3 starts,etc... you're stuck with what you have. Even right now most US corps bow to china's governments demands left and right. Because of Chinese influence. They have spies running out of think thanks and confucius centers in US colleges left and right. Your safety is a precious temporary thing and you are naively working against it.
    - lmm 4y ago
      > But that's just fucking it, the US is not going to abandon its interests so now China is also interested in compromising your safety and liberty. What safety and liberty do I have if the US government can kill or imprison me on a whim? If I'm supposed to shut up and fall into line either way then it doesn't make any difference whose flag is on the flagpole. I think the US has better values and principles than that, on the whole. But if you decide that to fight China you've got to turn into China, and that's the direction that laws like this are going, why would anyone support you? > Even right now most US corps bow to china's governments demands left and right. Because of Chinese influence. They have spies running out of think thanks and confucius centers in US colleges left and right. Again, fewer, less active, and with less backing, than the NSA equivalent.
HyperSane 4y ago
> The US government has detained or killed many more people like me Like what?
- lmm 4y ago
  Julian Assange and Harry Dunn are the examples that immediately come to mind - the latter was apparently not 100% intentional, but the point remains that my fellow citizens apparently have zero recourse against getting killed by US spies, and the US will help them evade justice and face no real consequence for it. I can't imagine a Chinese agent getting away with the same thing, although that's perhaps naive.
  - _8j50 4y ago
    > although that's perhaps naive. Yea it is and it isn't a freaking competition. A chinese agent will not harm you unless there is a reason and even in the west they harm their own dissidents. Julian ans that guy were harmed because they took the fight against the US, are you planning on doing the same? I dare you to go to hong kong and speak up and fight for the liberty if hong kong. And show me just exactly how HK is more free and has a government that will respect your rights more than the US. You talk like China and the US are even comparable. Honestly, you people can downvote me all you want but your naivette is putting me and of course yourself un serious harms way. You stand now enjoying liberty and peace that was hard won and don't consider the stakes.
    - lmm 4y ago
      > Julian ans that guy were harmed because they took the fight against the US, are you planning on doing the same? I dare you to go to hong kong and speak up and fight for the liberty if hong kong. WTF are you talking about? Neither of the people I mentioned ever went to the US. Assange put information that embarrassed the US on the internet, something you and I do about China all the time. > And show me just exactly how HK is more free and has a government that will respect your rights more than the US. You talk like China and the US are even comparable. I just have; HK and China do not get nonresident noncitizens in my country imprisoned or killed; the US does.

linkjuice4all 4y ago

Assuming you’re a US citizen or someone located in a country with an extradition agreement with the US then you’re probably at more risk of the US gov’t messing with your life than China. That doesn’t excuse any government from being terrible but “enemy” is definitely a relative term here.

_8j50 4y ago
[flagged]
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  > The US already has all your data thanks to US bigtech and you are fine enough to post on HN Which is why it's so arbitrary to ban a Chinese app that's doing the same thing as all the US big tech apps. It brings into stark relief the attitude of "it's been ok for us for the past decade, but not ok for you at all ever". I'd rather them say "it's not ok for anyone", but that would risk lifestyle funding.

BLKNSLVR 4y ago

No, I'm saying as a citizen of a country that's a member of the five-eyes, I'm more likely to be "reachable" by the US than I am China if I was to, for whatever reason, piss them both off. Some kind of irony hey? (which may be more related to "how the West dies") To be perfectly clear: I'd rather be living under US rule than Chinese, not that it should matter to this discussion.