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https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/child-sexual-abuse-amish https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/child-sexual-abuse-amish > Child Sexual Abuse in the Amish Community:

by msla 4y ago

https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/child-sexual-abuse-amish https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/child-sexual-abuse-amish > Child Sexual Abuse in the Amish Community: A Hidden Epidemic Turns out, a closed-off, hierarchical community isn't something to emulate. Doesn't help that a lot of them only get an eighth grade education: https://home.dartmouth.edu/news/2012/03/professor-william-fischel-discusses-amish-educational-system-modern-society https://home.dartmouth.edu/news/2012/03/professor-william-fi... > The Amish community’s adherence to a lifestyle more typical of the 19th century, which includes driving horse-drawn buggies and living in homes with no electricity, is driven by religious beliefs. But the Amish’s adherence to educating their children in one-room schoolhouses, and then only through the eighth grade, is largely the result of a 1972 Supreme Court decision, Yoder v. Wisconsin. This 40-year-old ruling has “frozen them in place” and threatens the younger generation’s ability to earn a living in an increasingly complex society, argues Professor of Economics William A. Fischel in a recent paper. https://www.amishheritage.org/services/education/ https://www.amishheritage.org/services/education/ > In 1972, the United States Supreme Court decided in Wisconsin v. Yoder that Amish children do not have the right to any future other than one inside the Amish Church. https://lancasteronline.com/features/former-amish-want-to-overturn-court-ruling-that-allows-amish-to-take-kids-out-of/article_763a8b6a-f1e0-11e9-b662-33127ad932ea.html https://lancasteronline.com/features/former-amish-want-to-ov... So it seems their "thorough consideration of technology" is in the context of a culture that's not going to change because it would threaten the established hierarchy. That's the threat, here: Something like this might start out well-intentioned, but once the institution is in place, well, any excuse will serve a tyrant, eh? Any excuse will serve the organization.

scns 4y ago
> Turns out, a closed-off, hierarchical community isn't something to emulate. Very true. There is a quote, often misattributed, about how power corrupts. To lazy to google it, sorry. > Doesn't help that a lot of them only get an eighth grade education: That is 5 years more than some ultraorthodox jews get, check out link [1] here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35336142 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35336142
- 4dayworkweek4u 4y ago
  You have to be open too all -- like a public toilet.
- msla 4y ago
  > That is 5 years more than some ultraorthodox jews get, check out link [1] here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35336142 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35336142 Proof that happy religious communities are all different, but ugly, controlling, abusive groups share many of the same characteristics.
  - WeylandYutani 4y ago
    I recently learned that the Bible wasn't translated into Russian until the 19th century. The Church/elders always go for information control.
    - watwut 4y ago
      Russians peasants could not read and write at that time. Educated minority could read and write ... and those actually learned foreign languages too. Even by the start of WWI, the illiteracy in Russia was super high.
nemo44x 4y ago
All that says is there’s no such thing as utopia. They have problems like anyone else. Our society is full of sexual abuse, violence in the home, murder, suicide, drug addicts in the streets, valueless people, money obsession, loneliness, ignorance and stupidity, etc. Our institutions are corrupt in many ways, wealth is power, and we are just as hierarchal as any other organization because it’s unavoidable. So I think it’s unfair to dismiss them because they have sexual abuse in their communities and have values other than education. They don’t want to change much but it’s not a conspiracy to maintain the hierarchy. It’s to maintain their way of life that they’ve found creates meaningful, stable, happy lives with authentic connections to each other. We lack this as a society so much that we have multi-billion dollar industries trying to bottle it up and sell it to our desperate people. They don’t do everything right but they get a lot right.
- msla 4y ago
  > So I think it’s unfair to dismiss them because they have sexual abuse in their communities It's fair to dismiss them because they have an institutional habit of covering it up. > and have values other than education. This is wrong. Not educating someone keeps them under your control. That's abusive.
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    > It's fair to dismiss them because they have an institutional habit of covering it up. Well, they take care of it themselves and don't get the legal system involved. They have their own ways of dealing with it. They don't support it and it's not like they're actively facilitating it. You may agree or disagree with this but there are many different communities in the USA that prefer to act this way. > This is wrong. Not educating someone keeps them under your control. That's abusive. They get enough education. I'd wager most of them are better educated than the majority of public school attendees, most which graduate with a < 8th grade level of reading and match ability. I think we should look at our own broken system more before criticizing them and holding them to a different standard.
    - msla 4y ago

by msla 4y ago

scns 4y ago

> Turns out, a closed-off, hierarchical community isn't something to emulate. Very true. There is a quote, often misattributed, about how power corrupts. To lazy to google it, sorry. > Doesn't help that a lot of them only get an eighth grade education: That is 5 years more than some ultraorthodox jews get, check out link [1] here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35336142 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35336142

4dayworkweek4u 4y ago
You have to be open too all -- like a public toilet.
msla 4y ago
> That is 5 years more than some ultraorthodox jews get, check out link [1] here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35336142 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35336142 Proof that happy religious communities are all different, but ugly, controlling, abusive groups share many of the same characteristics.
- WeylandYutani 4y ago
  I recently learned that the Bible wasn't translated into Russian until the 19th century. The Church/elders always go for information control.
  - watwut 4y ago
    Russians peasants could not read and write at that time. Educated minority could read and write ... and those actually learned foreign languages too. Even by the start of WWI, the illiteracy in Russia was super high.

nemo44x 4y ago

All that says is there’s no such thing as utopia. They have problems like anyone else. Our society is full of sexual abuse, violence in the home, murder, suicide, drug addicts in the streets, valueless people, money obsession, loneliness, ignorance and stupidity, etc. Our institutions are corrupt in many ways, wealth is power, and we are just as hierarchal as any other organization because it’s unavoidable. So I think it’s unfair to dismiss them because they have sexual abuse in their communities and have values other than education. They don’t want to change much but it’s not a conspiracy to maintain the hierarchy. It’s to maintain their way of life that they’ve found creates meaningful, stable, happy lives with authentic connections to each other. We lack this as a society so much that we have multi-billion dollar industries trying to bottle it up and sell it to our desperate people. They don’t do everything right but they get a lot right.

msla 4y ago
> So I think it’s unfair to dismiss them because they have sexual abuse in their communities It's fair to dismiss them because they have an institutional habit of covering it up. > and have values other than education. This is wrong. Not educating someone keeps them under your control. That's abusive.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  > It's fair to dismiss them because they have an institutional habit of covering it up. Well, they take care of it themselves and don't get the legal system involved. They have their own ways of dealing with it. They don't support it and it's not like they're actively facilitating it. You may agree or disagree with this but there are many different communities in the USA that prefer to act this way. > This is wrong. Not educating someone keeps them under your control. That's abusive. They get enough education. I'd wager most of them are better educated than the majority of public school attendees, most which graduate with a < 8th grade level of reading and match ability. I think we should look at our own broken system more before criticizing them and holding them to a different standard.
  - msla 4y ago