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For there to be a bubble, it has to be pierced. We haven't seen that with React. We did see that with Angular. I think the reason why the bubble did burst with

For there to be a bubble, it has to be pierced. We haven't seen that with React. We did see that with Angular. I think the reason why the bubble did burst with Angular is because it made many opinions about things, and the more opinions you make, the fewer people in aggregate are going to agree with your total outlook. It's easy to convince people of 1 thing, and less easy to convince people of N things. React being less opinionated and not a batteries-included option means it won't be going away for awhile.

benatkin 4y ago
> React being less opinionated and not a batteries-included option means it won't be going away for awhile. That's what they love to say, but it has never seemed that way to me. One way data flow seems to be a huge opinion. Also dangerouslySetInnerHTML, htmlFor, className, etc, etc. That last one was handled by the community, partly coming from Facebook, with stuff like GraphQL, but now they've gone more with batteries included route even on their website by suggesting to use a big framework: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project Also their opinions don't align with those of a lot of the community. A lot of glitches stem from controlled components. "In most cases, we recommend using controlled components to implement forms" https://legacy.reactjs.org/docs/uncontrolled-components.html https://legacy.reactjs.org/docs/uncontrolled-components.html ( which they might have finally changed their position on https://react.dev/reference/react-dom/components/input#controlling-an-input-with-a-state-variable https://react.dev/reference/react-dom/components/input#contr... ) "React Hook Form embraces uncontrolled components but is also compatible with controlled components." https://react-hook-form.com/advanced-usage/#ControlledmixedwithUncontrolledComponents https://react-hook-form.com/advanced-usage/#Controlledmixedw...
- 88913527 4y ago
  A more fruitful way to think about the degree of opinionated would be to compare to alternatives. If "className" versus "class" is too much 'opinion' maybe vanilla JS is best for your eclectic taste. Also, you'd absolutely find stuff like Angular to be maddening in its degree of opinionatedness.
  - benatkin 4y ago
    It isn't just the framework that's opinionated, it's the people behind it. An example is their website where they don't mention create-react-app at all here: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project They could have added it so as not to confuse someone who had heard about create-react-app and understandably expected to see it on a page called "start a new react project" but they prefer to blot it from memory...
    - leonidasv 4y ago
      This is on purpose. `create-react-app` is now considered outdated, "older workflow". See: https://github.com/reactjs/react.dev/pull/5487#issuecomment-1409720741 https://github.com/reactjs/react.dev/pull/5487#issuecomment-...

benatkin 4y ago

> React being less opinionated and not a batteries-included option means it won't be going away for awhile. That's what they love to say, but it has never seemed that way to me. One way data flow seems to be a huge opinion. Also dangerouslySetInnerHTML, htmlFor, className, etc, etc. That last one was handled by the community, partly coming from Facebook, with stuff like GraphQL, but now they've gone more with batteries included route even on their website by suggesting to use a big framework: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project Also their opinions don't align with those of a lot of the community. A lot of glitches stem from controlled components. "In most cases, we recommend using controlled components to implement forms" https://legacy.reactjs.org/docs/uncontrolled-components.html https://legacy.reactjs.org/docs/uncontrolled-components.html ( which they might have finally changed their position on https://react.dev/reference/react-dom/components/input#controlling-an-input-with-a-state-variable https://react.dev/reference/react-dom/components/input#contr... ) "React Hook Form embraces uncontrolled components but is also compatible with controlled components." https://react-hook-form.com/advanced-usage/#ControlledmixedwithUncontrolledComponents https://react-hook-form.com/advanced-usage/#Controlledmixedw...

88913527 4y ago
A more fruitful way to think about the degree of opinionated would be to compare to alternatives. If "className" versus "class" is too much 'opinion' maybe vanilla JS is best for your eclectic taste. Also, you'd absolutely find stuff like Angular to be maddening in its degree of opinionatedness.
- benatkin 4y ago
  It isn't just the framework that's opinionated, it's the people behind it. An example is their website where they don't mention create-react-app at all here: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project They could have added it so as not to confuse someone who had heard about create-react-app and understandably expected to see it on a page called "start a new react project" but they prefer to blot it from memory...
  - leonidasv 4y ago
    This is on purpose. `create-react-app` is now considered outdated, "older workflow". See: https://github.com/reactjs/react.dev/pull/5487#issuecomment-1409720741 https://github.com/reactjs/react.dev/pull/5487#issuecomment-...