7 ms·

I'm just here to enjoy the fact that the complaint uses Western Name Order[1]. For some strange reason, AP and a bunch of other style guides use pinyin when dea

I'm just here to enjoy the fact that the complaint uses Western Name Order[1]. For some strange reason, AP and a bunch of other style guides use pinyin when dealing with Chinese subjects, which in this case is...just not correct. If you're writing in English, to an English speaking audience, anything other than Western Order is nonsense, because referring to someone you've never met by just their last name is really sketchy. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_name#Western_name_order https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_name#Western_name_ord...

powersnail 4y ago
> because referring to someone you've never met by just their last name is really sketchy That's an interesting observation. Since you are talking about the order of names, do you mean "last name" as in surname or given name? Because the document does use surnames (which is what "last name" means in western order) to refer to people, apart from the first time when their full names are used. An either way, in what sense is that sketchy? I know that referring to people by their given name only is a sign of intimacy, but I don't associate either with sketchiness. Do you think it imply sketchiness in the speaker's relation to the spoken, or sketchiness with regard to the subject themself?
- chrisfinazzo 4y ago
  > Since you are talking about the order of names, do you mean "last name" as in surname or given name? Exactly. For people you don't know well, 'getting formal' is never really going to steer you wrong. Many of the Romance languages (Spanish being one I know best, also because my brother's wife is originally from Panama) have the concept of a formal and informal pronoun "you". To an older person, I might say, "¿Como esta usted?" instead of "¿Como estas?" as a sign of respect or deference. For the record, I know precisely zilch about the rules in pinyin, and by coincidence didn't really grasp that "Standard Chinese"[1] is really an offshoot of Mandarin until a couple of years ago. Seeing "Crouching Tiger" in Mandarin somehow got me in the mindset that this was "old" Chinese to fit with the time period of the film. Not so much.
  - chrisfinazzo 4y ago
    To the point about last names, it's also culturally off-putting.[1] This is a different context obviously, but the idea is the same. "In most of the English speaking world it is not considered polite to open letters to a Mr. Joel Spolsky by writing “Dear Spolsky.” One might write “Dear Mr. Spolsky,” or “Dear sir,” or perhaps, “Hi Joel!” But “Dear Spolsky” is usually followed by some story about embezzled funds and needing to borrow my bank account." [1]:https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/01/26/getting-your-resume-read/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/01/26/getting-your-resum...

powersnail 4y ago

> because referring to someone you've never met by just their last name is really sketchy That's an interesting observation. Since you are talking about the order of names, do you mean "last name" as in surname or given name? Because the document does use surnames (which is what "last name" means in western order) to refer to people, apart from the first time when their full names are used. An either way, in what sense is that sketchy? I know that referring to people by their given name only is a sign of intimacy, but I don't associate either with sketchiness. Do you think it imply sketchiness in the speaker's relation to the spoken, or sketchiness with regard to the subject themself?

chrisfinazzo 4y ago
> Since you are talking about the order of names, do you mean "last name" as in surname or given name? Exactly. For people you don't know well, 'getting formal' is never really going to steer you wrong. Many of the Romance languages (Spanish being one I know best, also because my brother's wife is originally from Panama) have the concept of a formal and informal pronoun "you". To an older person, I might say, "¿Como esta usted?" instead of "¿Como estas?" as a sign of respect or deference. For the record, I know precisely zilch about the rules in pinyin, and by coincidence didn't really grasp that "Standard Chinese"[1] is really an offshoot of Mandarin until a couple of years ago. Seeing "Crouching Tiger" in Mandarin somehow got me in the mindset that this was "old" Chinese to fit with the time period of the film. Not so much.
- chrisfinazzo 4y ago
  To the point about last names, it's also culturally off-putting.[1] This is a different context obviously, but the idea is the same. "In most of the English speaking world it is not considered polite to open letters to a Mr. Joel Spolsky by writing “Dear Spolsky.” One might write “Dear Mr. Spolsky,” or “Dear sir,” or perhaps, “Hi Joel!” But “Dear Spolsky” is usually followed by some story about embezzled funds and needing to borrow my bank account." [1]:https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/01/26/getting-your-resume-read/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/01/26/getting-your-resum...