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> Not by explaining why I should like DivestOS Because I'm not trying to shill my project, but instead provide factual information about others in a thread abo

by _rdvw 4y ago

> Not by explaining why I should like DivestOS Because I'm not trying to shill my project, but instead provide factual information about others in a thread about them. > because it means that they moved away from Google/Samsung/etc. But they didn't as my link describes. > most important apps don't run there "for security" But this is just wrong, GrapheneOS has superior compatibility compared to systems shipping microG. > criticizing all efforts I can see out there Yet I have pages dedicated to recommendations of projects, thanking people who made it possible, along with many contributions back: - https://divestos.org/pages/recommended_apps https://divestos.org/pages/recommended_apps - https://divestos.org/pages/patch_levels#secure https://divestos.org/pages/patch_levels#secure - https://divestos.org/pages/about https://divestos.org/pages/about It only happens to seem that way because there are sadly a lot of companies portraying themself as helpful open source projects when they really just want to sell insecure devices to pad their pockets.

palata 4y ago
> Because I'm not trying to shill my project Sure, you just say ("disclaimer, I write divestOS (link)") and then start spitting on the project ("I told them, but they haven't updated their default PDF app in at least 2 months!!!! That's absolutely ridiculous, look at my list of complaints (link)! Note that it's a huuuuge list because I keep all the complaints and just mark them as [FIXED] when they are not relevant anymore"). > But this is just wrong, GrapheneOS has superior compatibility compared to systems shipping microG. Can you install, say, WhatsApp through the store on GrapheneOS? Can I install my public transport app (hint: it's not on F-droid) or my banking app? And can I use GrapheneOS with my Samsung phone? It's great if GrapheneOS fits your needs. But think that other people may have other needs. Which may involve compromising on security/privacy for the sake of convenience. > they really just want to sell insecure devices It's not black and white, is it? There is no such thing as a "secure device" (what would that mean? "Cannot be hacked and will not leak any data ever"?). Devices can be more or less secure, that's a gradient. Maybe you want a more secure device (at some cost, e.g. you don't install a third-party keyboard and you only use a Pixel phone), but others want a more convenient device. The whole point of projects like /e/ OS (which you don't seem to begin to grasp) is to provide more privacy while keeping as much convenience as possible. For "normal" people, not for people who like spending their free time writing lists about when the default PDF app was last updated. Because normal people don't care as much.
- _rdvw 4y ago
  > but they haven't updated their default PDF app in at least 2 months The PDF renderer in their PDF viewer is from 2016 and has dozens of long-known security issues. > Can you install, say, WhatsApp through the store on GrapheneOS? Can I install my public transport app (hint: it's not on F-droid) or my banking app? Yes you can, maybe you should read their documentation: https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play > It's great if GrapheneOS fits your needs. I don't use GrapheneOS. > There is no such thing as a "secure device" You're shifting goal posts, the devices they're selling are end-of-life by manufacturer or are years behind _available_ firmware/blob updates. > not for people who like spending their free time writing lists about when the default PDF app was last updated. I don't know why you're focused on the PDF viewer when they went _eleven_ months without updating the browser and system webview, one of the most important programs on any computer.
  - palata 4y ago
    > The PDF renderer in their PDF viewer is from 2016 and has dozens of long-known security issues. I don't care, I uninstalled it and installed another one. > Yes you can, maybe you should read their documentation Good to know, though I'm pretty sure it wasn't the case a few years ago when I considered GrapheneOS (see "Sandboxed Google Play is close to being fully functional"). But that seems great indeed! > You're shifting goal posts, the devices they're selling are end-of-life by manufacturer Mine is not end-of-life at all. Some are, but that's a feature: it's great to be able to not change phone every 2 years because the manufacturer just wants to sell more. > or are years behind _available_ firmware/blob updates. Mine is not at all. Some have less support, I suppose. If it matters to you, you can probably contribute. > they went _eleven_ months without updating the browser and system webview I think it's mitigated by the fact that you can install your favourite browser, so only the webview is an issue. But yes, that's a problem. Doesn't make the whole project crap: they are successfully making a nice-to-use de-Googled phone. That's a step in the right direction. That does not make them perfect. My complaint about your behavior is that IMHO, you sound like you are trying very hard to tell people that the whole project is crap. I'm sure you have a ton of interesting and constructive criticisms you could share. But when I read "DivestOS", my thought is not "oh, that interesting Android fork?" but rather "oh, that's the guy who goes on other people's forums to tell them that their project is crap".

by _rdvw 4y ago

palata 4y ago

> Because I'm not trying to shill my project Sure, you just say ("disclaimer, I write divestOS (link)") and then start spitting on the project ("I told them, but they haven't updated their default PDF app in at least 2 months!!!! That's absolutely ridiculous, look at my list of complaints (link)! Note that it's a huuuuge list because I keep all the complaints and just mark them as [FIXED] when they are not relevant anymore"). > But this is just wrong, GrapheneOS has superior compatibility compared to systems shipping microG. Can you install, say, WhatsApp through the store on GrapheneOS? Can I install my public transport app (hint: it's not on F-droid) or my banking app? And can I use GrapheneOS with my Samsung phone? It's great if GrapheneOS fits your needs. But think that other people may have other needs. Which may involve compromising on security/privacy for the sake of convenience. > they really just want to sell insecure devices It's not black and white, is it? There is no such thing as a "secure device" (what would that mean? "Cannot be hacked and will not leak any data ever"?). Devices can be more or less secure, that's a gradient. Maybe you want a more secure device (at some cost, e.g. you don't install a third-party keyboard and you only use a Pixel phone), but others want a more convenient device. The whole point of projects like /e/ OS (which you don't seem to begin to grasp) is to provide more privacy while keeping as much convenience as possible. For "normal" people, not for people who like spending their free time writing lists about when the default PDF app was last updated. Because normal people don't care as much.

_rdvw 4y ago
> but they haven't updated their default PDF app in at least 2 months The PDF renderer in their PDF viewer is from 2016 and has dozens of long-known security issues. > Can you install, say, WhatsApp through the store on GrapheneOS? Can I install my public transport app (hint: it's not on F-droid) or my banking app? Yes you can, maybe you should read their documentation: https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play > It's great if GrapheneOS fits your needs. I don't use GrapheneOS. > There is no such thing as a "secure device" You're shifting goal posts, the devices they're selling are end-of-life by manufacturer or are years behind _available_ firmware/blob updates. > not for people who like spending their free time writing lists about when the default PDF app was last updated. I don't know why you're focused on the PDF viewer when they went _eleven_ months without updating the browser and system webview, one of the most important programs on any computer.
- palata 4y ago
  > The PDF renderer in their PDF viewer is from 2016 and has dozens of long-known security issues. I don't care, I uninstalled it and installed another one. > Yes you can, maybe you should read their documentation Good to know, though I'm pretty sure it wasn't the case a few years ago when I considered GrapheneOS (see "Sandboxed Google Play is close to being fully functional"). But that seems great indeed! > You're shifting goal posts, the devices they're selling are end-of-life by manufacturer Mine is not end-of-life at all. Some are, but that's a feature: it's great to be able to not change phone every 2 years because the manufacturer just wants to sell more. > or are years behind _available_ firmware/blob updates. Mine is not at all. Some have less support, I suppose. If it matters to you, you can probably contribute. > they went _eleven_ months without updating the browser and system webview I think it's mitigated by the fact that you can install your favourite browser, so only the webview is an issue. But yes, that's a problem. Doesn't make the whole project crap: they are successfully making a nice-to-use de-Googled phone. That's a step in the right direction. That does not make them perfect. My complaint about your behavior is that IMHO, you sound like you are trying very hard to tell people that the whole project is crap. I'm sure you have a ton of interesting and constructive criticisms you could share. But when I read "DivestOS", my thought is not "oh, that interesting Android fork?" but rather "oh, that's the guy who goes on other people's forums to tell them that their project is crap".