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> A fine, but expensive and mechanically complex solution I'm not sure I agree that they're mechanically complex. They're engineering 101. A pump, a heater and

> A fine, but expensive and mechanically complex solution I'm not sure I agree that they're mechanically complex. They're engineering 101. A pump, a heater and a thermostat. They're rather mechanically simple. > Dual boiler machines generally cost thousands even for small home machines. The _cheapest_ Decent is $3500. > Commercial dual boiler machines will set you back at least $10-30k, easily. You don't need a $10k-$30k machine to get a competent dual boiler. If you look at something like a Lelit Bianca, a dual boiler with preinfusion and flow control while $500 cheaper than the cheapest Decent, you can pull your first shot in 10 minutes. A home brewer making espresso on a Bianca isn't going to notice the difference on a $10k or $30k machine because at that price point what you're paying for isn't the ability to pull a shot, it's the ability to pull thousands of them every day of the year. > But they basically haven't changed since the sixties. That's true but I argue they don't need to. We don't need to iterate on everything. Technology doesn't always make things better.

esperent 4y ago
> You don't need a $10k-$30k machine to get a competent dual boiler Commercially, you do (I own a small cafe chain so I can claim some knowledge here). The Lelit Bianca is a beautiful home machine but you can't use it commercially - first of all, due to safety certs (not sure about the Bianca specifically but most small home machines don't have commercial certs). But also because it just isn't built to handle a morning rush of customers. I don't think you could make more than 10 or so lattes in a row before it would lose steam. > I'm not sure I agree that they're mechanically complex. They're engineering 101. A pump, a heater and a thermostat. They're rather mechanically simple I think that list is missing a few of the components that make up an espresso machine :) https://66.media.tumblr.com/2a1cfb37655e5ddc1dfa820b15eefca9/tumblr_omg6bkv6Yg1sg89tto1_640.jpg https://66.media.tumblr.com/2a1cfb37655e5ddc1dfa820b15eefca9... But nonetheless I agree, there are far more complex machines in regular use. My complaints are more about warm up time, hard limits on how many coffees you can serve in a row, and electricity use. > That's true but I argue they don't need to. We don't need to iterate on everything. Technology doesn't always make things better. I partially agree with this but again, from a commercial perspective I guess I have different goals. Actually at home I use a Flair 58 manual lever machine and a hand grinder. Beautifully simple and I could heat water using a wood fire and make it work. But commercially, I want the tech I use to improve. I want better efficiency, better reliability, and lower energy use. I don't have the numbers for our yearly electric bill just from the coffee machine, but it's a lot and a good chunk of the day it just sits there reheating water over and over. It's the same as saying you should never need to upgrade your work laptop. Wasn't the 720p screen you had in 2005 perfectly adequate? Why do you need more than 1gb RAM?

esperent 4y ago

> You don't need a $10k-$30k machine to get a competent dual boiler Commercially, you do (I own a small cafe chain so I can claim some knowledge here). The Lelit Bianca is a beautiful home machine but you can't use it commercially - first of all, due to safety certs (not sure about the Bianca specifically but most small home machines don't have commercial certs). But also because it just isn't built to handle a morning rush of customers. I don't think you could make more than 10 or so lattes in a row before it would lose steam. > I'm not sure I agree that they're mechanically complex. They're engineering 101. A pump, a heater and a thermostat. They're rather mechanically simple I think that list is missing a few of the components that make up an espresso machine :) https://66.media.tumblr.com/2a1cfb37655e5ddc1dfa820b15eefca9/tumblr_omg6bkv6Yg1sg89tto1_640.jpg https://66.media.tumblr.com/2a1cfb37655e5ddc1dfa820b15eefca9... But nonetheless I agree, there are far more complex machines in regular use. My complaints are more about warm up time, hard limits on how many coffees you can serve in a row, and electricity use. > That's true but I argue they don't need to. We don't need to iterate on everything. Technology doesn't always make things better. I partially agree with this but again, from a commercial perspective I guess I have different goals. Actually at home I use a Flair 58 manual lever machine and a hand grinder. Beautifully simple and I could heat water using a wood fire and make it work. But commercially, I want the tech I use to improve. I want better efficiency, better reliability, and lower energy use. I don't have the numbers for our yearly electric bill just from the coffee machine, but it's a lot and a good chunk of the day it just sits there reheating water over and over. It's the same as saying you should never need to upgrade your work laptop. Wasn't the 720p screen you had in 2005 perfectly adequate? Why do you need more than 1gb RAM?