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Remember how, just a few months ago, one could get banned from Social media for suggesting Covid-19 originated in a lab? "Fact Checkers" were hard at work silen

Remember how, just a few months ago, one could get banned from Social media for suggesting Covid-19 originated in a lab? "Fact Checkers" were hard at work silencing that content and attributing it to "conspiracy theorists". Now the lab leak hypothesis is mainstream, with experts supporting investigating the labs in Wuhan and bringing in evidence that the disease indeed originated in a Chinese lab. Sometimes, it seems the difference between facts and conspiracy is 6 months or another presidential administration, whichever comes first!

cachecrab 4y ago
Lab leak != lab origination. It could have escaped the lab, but that doesn't mean it was created there.
barrysteve 4y ago
Uhh. The facts are off the map for media companies and the government media. Society alternates between 3 functions. Hiding away facts, milking good times and taking valuable resources off the map. We're just the weird people who remember the old-school world, where the public knowing the facts was a point of order and the science would settle it all. Conspiracies theories appear to sound the alarm on it all, but they have no unique, private facts to share with the public, just like everyone else.
skyyler 4y ago
This is the stuff that is exhausting. Why focus on it? What good does it bring to you?
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  "Why keep looking at the stars through these telescopes? We all know the Earth is at the center of the Universe, the Pope said so. What good does it bring to you?"
  - skyyler 4y ago
    I find it disingenuous to conflate “consuming news media” with “looking at the stars through telescopes”…
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  It's reality.
  - skyyler 4y ago
    And in your day-to-day life, how does a deep understanding of the psyops being run against you and your countrymen do anything to help? Knowledge is for action.
    - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
      Your rights are being eroded, your purchase power is being drained, society around you is slowly collapsing. Change that happens slowly is insidious to notice, but it surely is impossible if you choose to actively ignore it... until it becomes unbearable, and then it's even costlier to act.
      - dnissley 4y ago
        How are you acting in response to this knowledge?
        Jensson 4y ago
        In a democracy the solution to problems is to spread the word and ensure many more people know, so that it can influence future elections. So exactly what he is doing here.
        yetihehe 4y ago
        Yeah, I've tried doing it but nobody listens to me, they think I'm just stupid for having opinions "not like everybody else" or say "yeah, but what can we do about this?" or "yeah, but I don't trust that new candidate". I want to do something to better everyone's lives, but after seeing their actions day after day being anti-progress, I no longer care. Of course progress is as defined by me, they just have their own opinions which they consider as more valid. If all the people around me have other opinion about what's good for them, maybe I'm in the wrong? How would you deal with such situation?
- bheadmaster 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - skyyler 4y ago
    When my friends have problems, I help them. I volunteer my time to refurbish computers that were headed to e-waste for free distribution to struggling families. I vote, especially focusing on local elections and measures. I just don't think paying attention to news media is doing people any favors. It's kind of telling to me that you've compared not consuming news media to literally excusing genocide. That's how entrenched this industry is in our society... I'm sorry you choose to spend your time sniffing farts. You could take the attention you gave news media and give it to your wife that is stressed out from you going to the bar. Maybe you'd want to sniff your own farts less then?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - bheadmaster 4y ago
      What's the exact difference between ignoring media when they tell you a genocide is being done, and when they tell you human rights are being taken away? That one is worse than another? Where do we draw the line, then - at death? So labor camps are okay, but gas chambers are not?
      - skyyler 4y ago
        What do you do with the information news media gives you? Do you act on it?
        bheadmaster 4y ago
        You act on it, or if you're powerless, spread it around to others until hopefully it reaches someone who's powerful and cares. Or just make a politically charged rap rock band. Anything is better than sticking your head in the sand.
mustacheemperor 4y ago
Viewing this sort of issue as equivalent in personal magnitude and meaning to Galileo’s heliocentrism dispute with the renaissance church is exactly the perspective I seek to avoid by framing my mindset like the earlier commenter, personally.
skeaker 4y ago
I mean, it was an unfounded conspiracy theory before, wasn't it? When new evidence came about then it shifted into legitimacy. That's just how evidence works.
- TinkersW 4y ago
  It was not unfounded for scientific reasons, but because some people decided it needed to be so.
khochesh_kushat 4y ago
Isn't the difference evidence? There were people jumping to all kinds of theories without evidence at the beginning, but acting like they knew for sure whatever their theory was. Some happened to be right, but that doesn't mean that the lesson to be learned is truth can best be found by jumping to conclusions without evidence. If that was the lesson, then we should be jumping to exciting new conclusions without evidence like "actually, it's only changing now because US propaganda wants to harm China for their failure to align against Russia, and pinning COVID on them is a super convenient way to do that." Or whatever other exciting new theories you can come up, unbound from any evidence other than it sounds like something that could be plausible. Who knows maybe I will turn out right and I can rub it in everyone's faces later.
dnissley 4y ago
In this context I think you're pattern matching too deterministically on the term "conspiracy theory". I just read it as "random negative news headlines of the moment". Ironically this kind of poor pattern matching is what led to the situation you speak of, where anyone talking about the lab leak hypothesis got pattern matched as sinophobic / a conspiracy theorist.
Loocid 4y ago
Do you also remember COVID is a hoax, the vaccine is killing people for population control, 5G causes COVID, ivermectin is the real cure etc? The sheer volume is what is exhausting.

cachecrab 4y ago

Lab leak != lab origination. It could have escaped the lab, but that doesn't mean it was created there.

barrysteve 4y ago

Uhh. The facts are off the map for media companies and the government media. Society alternates between 3 functions. Hiding away facts, milking good times and taking valuable resources off the map. We're just the weird people who remember the old-school world, where the public knowing the facts was a point of order and the science would settle it all. Conspiracies theories appear to sound the alarm on it all, but they have no unique, private facts to share with the public, just like everyone else.

skyyler 4y ago

This is the stuff that is exhausting. Why focus on it? What good does it bring to you?

908B64B197 4y ago
"Why keep looking at the stars through these telescopes? We all know the Earth is at the center of the Universe, the Pope said so. What good does it bring to you?"
- skyyler 4y ago
  I find it disingenuous to conflate “consuming news media” with “looking at the stars through telescopes”…
hypertele-Xii 4y ago
It's reality.
- skyyler 4y ago
  And in your day-to-day life, how does a deep understanding of the psyops being run against you and your countrymen do anything to help? Knowledge is for action.
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    Your rights are being eroded, your purchase power is being drained, society around you is slowly collapsing. Change that happens slowly is insidious to notice, but it surely is impossible if you choose to actively ignore it... until it becomes unbearable, and then it's even costlier to act.
    - dnissley 4y ago
      How are you acting in response to this knowledge?
      - Jensson 4y ago
        In a democracy the solution to problems is to spread the word and ensure many more people know, so that it can influence future elections. So exactly what he is doing here.
        yetihehe 4y ago
        Yeah, I've tried doing it but nobody listens to me, they think I'm just stupid for having opinions "not like everybody else" or say "yeah, but what can we do about this?" or "yeah, but I don't trust that new candidate". I want to do something to better everyone's lives, but after seeing their actions day after day being anti-progress, I no longer care. Of course progress is as defined by me, they just have their own opinions which they consider as more valid. If all the people around me have other opinion about what's good for them, maybe I'm in the wrong? How would you deal with such situation?
bheadmaster 4y ago
[flagged]
- skyyler 4y ago
  When my friends have problems, I help them. I volunteer my time to refurbish computers that were headed to e-waste for free distribution to struggling families. I vote, especially focusing on local elections and measures. I just don't think paying attention to news media is doing people any favors. It's kind of telling to me that you've compared not consuming news media to literally excusing genocide. That's how entrenched this industry is in our society... I'm sorry you choose to spend your time sniffing farts. You could take the attention you gave news media and give it to your wife that is stressed out from you going to the bar. Maybe you'd want to sniff your own farts less then?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - bheadmaster 4y ago
    What's the exact difference between ignoring media when they tell you a genocide is being done, and when they tell you human rights are being taken away? That one is worse than another? Where do we draw the line, then - at death? So labor camps are okay, but gas chambers are not?
    - skyyler 4y ago
      What do you do with the information news media gives you? Do you act on it?
      - bheadmaster 4y ago
        You act on it, or if you're powerless, spread it around to others until hopefully it reaches someone who's powerful and cares. Or just make a politically charged rap rock band. Anything is better than sticking your head in the sand.

mustacheemperor 4y ago

Viewing this sort of issue as equivalent in personal magnitude and meaning to Galileo’s heliocentrism dispute with the renaissance church is exactly the perspective I seek to avoid by framing my mindset like the earlier commenter, personally.

skeaker 4y ago

I mean, it was an unfounded conspiracy theory before, wasn't it? When new evidence came about then it shifted into legitimacy. That's just how evidence works.

TinkersW 4y ago
It was not unfounded for scientific reasons, but because some people decided it needed to be so.

khochesh_kushat 4y ago

Isn't the difference evidence? There were people jumping to all kinds of theories without evidence at the beginning, but acting like they knew for sure whatever their theory was. Some happened to be right, but that doesn't mean that the lesson to be learned is truth can best be found by jumping to conclusions without evidence. If that was the lesson, then we should be jumping to exciting new conclusions without evidence like "actually, it's only changing now because US propaganda wants to harm China for their failure to align against Russia, and pinning COVID on them is a super convenient way to do that." Or whatever other exciting new theories you can come up, unbound from any evidence other than it sounds like something that could be plausible. Who knows maybe I will turn out right and I can rub it in everyone's faces later.

dnissley 4y ago

In this context I think you're pattern matching too deterministically on the term "conspiracy theory". I just read it as "random negative news headlines of the moment". Ironically this kind of poor pattern matching is what led to the situation you speak of, where anyone talking about the lab leak hypothesis got pattern matched as sinophobic / a conspiracy theorist.

Loocid 4y ago

Do you also remember COVID is a hoax, the vaccine is killing people for population control, 5G causes COVID, ivermectin is the real cure etc? The sheer volume is what is exhausting.