4 ms·

In that case they need to prosecute all the road crews and gas stations. Those people know with certainty they are providing for criminals, and they do nothing

In that case they need to prosecute all the road crews and gas stations. Those people know with certainty they are providing for criminals, and they do nothing to stop it.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> they need to prosecute all the road crews and gas stations If you don't see the difference between knowingly helping a designated terrorist organization launder money (specific and known criminal and crime) and operating an honest business in a high-crime neighborhood (statistical likelihood of aiding a criminal), you shouldn't be making business decisions or running a financial services firm. It's an obvious distinction, one that a roomful of people with basic legal instruction will agree on 99% of the time, except for the one with a profit incentive to argue the opposite.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  The line gets really blurry when you see someone buying large quantities of legal products that can be compounded into other products like meth. At what point are you aiding by selling lye. That's the case here.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > line gets really blurry when you see someone buying large quantities of legal products that can be compounded into other products like meth. At what point are you aiding by selling lye. That's the case here. I fully agree on the line, in general, being fuzzy. It's not here. Multiple texts describe Binance helping Hamas circumvent money-laundering flags by moving small amounts, helping a Chicago-based trader hide his U.S. origin, et cetera. If someone buys a bunch of lye, the line is blurry. If they walk in hitting a meth pipe, ask you in which aisle are the meth supplies, and when they hand you their credit card, you advise them to pay in cash so you don't have to draw up a receipt, the line isn't blurry so much as very far away.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - notch898a 4y ago
      >Multiple texts describe Binance helping Hamas circumvent money-laundering flags by moving small amounts I was unable to find these. The only hamas bit I found in the indictment was Binance describing generally how Hamas launder in low value quantas like $600. Not texts showing they identified specific hamas accounts and developed individualized plans to assist them.
      - bolanyo 4y ago
        Yes, the line about "after receiving information about 'HAMAS' transactions" seems deliberately intended to withhold the actual content of the conversation about Hamas.
  - WJW 4y ago
    There is no doubt that the line is indeed pretty blurry in many cases. But if the regulators have evidence that you are taking actions specifically to evade the applicable laws, you are firmly on the wrong side of that line.
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    That is an example where it could be blurry, I agree. But if you are suspicious enough to have internal communications about said suspicions and don't make any effort to communicate the same to law enforcement, then the line becomes less blurry.
- notch898a 4y ago
  The road crew knowingly helps DTOs launder money by building the interstate system known to assist with exactly that.
illiarian 4y ago
If you sell knives, and a criminal walks in, buys a knife, and then kills someone, you are not guilty. If you know the criminal, you sell that criminal knives, and after police come looking you tell the criminal, you are at the very least complicit.
- olalonde 4y ago
  You are missing the point. AML laws, which apply to crypto exchanges, are not like that at all. It's not if you know. It's more like if you have the slightest suspicion, e.g. the guy who bought the knife was black and had baggie pants or had a neck tattoo. Or the guy has an Arabic name and posted a 9/11 meme on Twitter.
- notch898a 4y ago
  If I walk up to the road crew and tell them the local mob is going to be driving drugs across it the day after completion, are they then complicit when they keep going?
  - notahacker 4y ago
    If the road crew discuss tipping the mob off that they're being watched and lying to the police about the date the road is scheduled to be opened to give the mob a window of opportunity, quite possibly
wbl 4y ago
No they don't. The statutes for financial institutions are different and aiding and abetting requires particularized knowledge that we recognize gas stations just don't have.

In that case they need to prosecute all the road crews and gas stations. Those people know with certainty they are providing for criminals, and they do nothing to stop it.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> they need to prosecute all the road crews and gas stations If you don't see the difference between knowingly helping a designated terrorist organization launder money (specific and known criminal and crime) and operating an honest business in a high-crime neighborhood (statistical likelihood of aiding a criminal), you shouldn't be making business decisions or running a financial services firm. It's an obvious distinction, one that a roomful of people with basic legal instruction will agree on 99% of the time, except for the one with a profit incentive to argue the opposite.

ipaddr 4y ago
The line gets really blurry when you see someone buying large quantities of legal products that can be compounded into other products like meth. At what point are you aiding by selling lye. That's the case here.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > line gets really blurry when you see someone buying large quantities of legal products that can be compounded into other products like meth. At what point are you aiding by selling lye. That's the case here. I fully agree on the line, in general, being fuzzy. It's not here. Multiple texts describe Binance helping Hamas circumvent money-laundering flags by moving small amounts, helping a Chicago-based trader hide his U.S. origin, et cetera. If someone buys a bunch of lye, the line is blurry. If they walk in hitting a meth pipe, ask you in which aisle are the meth supplies, and when they hand you their credit card, you advise them to pay in cash so you don't have to draw up a receipt, the line isn't blurry so much as very far away.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - notch898a 4y ago
    >Multiple texts describe Binance helping Hamas circumvent money-laundering flags by moving small amounts I was unable to find these. The only hamas bit I found in the indictment was Binance describing generally how Hamas launder in low value quantas like $600. Not texts showing they identified specific hamas accounts and developed individualized plans to assist them.
    - bolanyo 4y ago
      Yes, the line about "after receiving information about 'HAMAS' transactions" seems deliberately intended to withhold the actual content of the conversation about Hamas.
- WJW 4y ago
  There is no doubt that the line is indeed pretty blurry in many cases. But if the regulators have evidence that you are taking actions specifically to evade the applicable laws, you are firmly on the wrong side of that line.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  That is an example where it could be blurry, I agree. But if you are suspicious enough to have internal communications about said suspicions and don't make any effort to communicate the same to law enforcement, then the line becomes less blurry.
notch898a 4y ago
The road crew knowingly helps DTOs launder money by building the interstate system known to assist with exactly that.

illiarian 4y ago

If you sell knives, and a criminal walks in, buys a knife, and then kills someone, you are not guilty. If you know the criminal, you sell that criminal knives, and after police come looking you tell the criminal, you are at the very least complicit.

olalonde 4y ago
You are missing the point. AML laws, which apply to crypto exchanges, are not like that at all. It's not if you know. It's more like if you have the slightest suspicion, e.g. the guy who bought the knife was black and had baggie pants or had a neck tattoo. Or the guy has an Arabic name and posted a 9/11 meme on Twitter.
notch898a 4y ago
If I walk up to the road crew and tell them the local mob is going to be driving drugs across it the day after completion, are they then complicit when they keep going?
- notahacker 4y ago
  If the road crew discuss tipping the mob off that they're being watched and lying to the police about the date the road is scheduled to be opened to give the mob a window of opportunity, quite possibly

wbl 4y ago

No they don't. The statutes for financial institutions are different and aiding and abetting requires particularized knowledge that we recognize gas stations just don't have.