6 ms·

Such an extreme measure without strict requirements on developer profit margins turns this kind of act into flowing more cash into the pockets of for-profit dev

Such an extreme measure without strict requirements on developer profit margins turns this kind of act into flowing more cash into the pockets of for-profit development corporations. Zero-profit development should be mandatory. Match people looking to work with funding to do so, without the profit margins and investors seeking gains.

mistrial9 4y ago
except, in California and elsewhere, there is a new, large population of hardened homeless, complete with a menu of mental illness, emotional damage including prison and police interactions, and super, ultra-strong drugs on a daily basis. What ordinary apartment could house populations like this? Since California desires no undocumented slums, as found commonly on a large scale in the South Americas, someone has to build something. The real danger is similar to totally crooked locals like Phil Tagami in Oakland, who has a "housing project" that has been going for TWELVE YEARS without building anything, nothing. Other crooked people involved, depending on how you define it. If this money results in actual buildings that can handle the intended crowds, that are not prisons, that is progress here.
- notch898a 4y ago
  Maybe we should just offer a one way ticket to anyone who desires to go to Swain's Island, where all the fentanyl and other hard drugs they like will be provided with pharmaceutical grade purity. Anyone caught performing property or other crime with an identifiable 3rd party victim will be offered the choice to serve their term in California or a one way ticket to Fentanyl town on Swain's Island where they can get high to their heart's content.
  - reducesuffering 4y ago
    And if your child or sibling hits a rough patch, becomes a drug user, and chooses their inevitable death on Swains Island before you can do anything about it, you will still think it’s a good idea?
    - notch898a 4y ago
      What if my child hits a rough patch and becomes the victim of a drug user? So much the better if that drug user instead chose voluntarily to enjoy all the drugs they like on Swain's Island.
      - eurasiantiger 4y ago
        Nice stereotype.
        notch898a 4y ago
        Crickets from you regarding the whole premise here that relies on my counterparty's "stereotype" that a drug user will choose "inevitable death" when able to dose themselves with clean pharmaceutical grade drugs without cost. At least I didn't make it a personal comment about the individual inclination of the counterparty's children like they did about mine. I reject your use of the word "stereotype" here but if it applies it is clear you're using it with extreme prejudice. Although it is kind of hilarious to see essentially don't stereotype drug users, who will all kill themselves with drugs if given the chance. Which of course is a position that is neatly and compactly contradictory.
        eurasiantiger 4y ago
        I never wrote or implied any of that.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    Love to see that straightforwardly eliminationist rhetoric on "hacker" "news." We are all so smart contrarian and cool you can tell because we tolerate even endorse this sort of thing as long as you keep a calm tone.
    - notch898a 4y ago
      I'm merely advocating these individuals be given their own territory where they can pursue their dream with freedom and excellent knowledge of the content of their drugs, free from threat of arrest for possession or the irregularities of the unknown black market stomped on cocktails.
      - mistrial9 4y ago
        remarkably, there is a large and prolonged historical project that fits this description very well ! It was the exiles of France, under Catholic approval, sent to the swampy exile of the Atlantic Coast of South America.. (near modern Guyana I think) This happened just after the Napoleonic Wars (?) and lasted a very long time, with many many thousands sent away. The move Papillon is based on the story of a man that survived it, as I recall. If you watch the movie, please tell others about it! "Papillon is a 2017 drama film directed by Michael Noer that tells the story of French convict Henri Charrière (Charlie Hunnam), nicknamed Papillon ("butterfly"), who was falsely imprisoned in the notorious Devil's Island penal colony and escaped in 1941 with the help of convicted counterfeiter Louis Dega (Rami Malek). Additionally, Papillon is a 1973 epic historical drama prison film directed by Franklin J. Schaffner and based on Henri Charrière’s 1969 autobiography"
        notch898a 4y ago
        Thank you for the recommendation!
lxm 4y ago
"Non-profit" just encourages padding expenses along the way. City of LA had access to government-owned land, fairly large pool of labor and probably some bulk discounts on building materials. Yet after you add consultants, construction unions and other well-connected entities jumping onto the gravy train, average unit ended up above $600k, way above an average "for-profit" luxury condo in LA https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-23/la-paying-600-000-apiece-for-units-to-house-homeless-people?leadSource=uverify%20wall https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-23/la-paying...
- ehvatum 4y ago
  Having worked with the St. Louis housing authority in the past, I bid work for urban development authorities at a 10x multiplier, and I am elated to tell my investors that we tried, and our bids were rejected. You cannot possibly imagine the pain and frustration of building for inner-city urban development government organizations. They exist to perpetuate the problems that perpetuate their existence. The worse things get, the more funding they get.
gruez 4y ago
>Such an extreme measure without strict requirements on developer profit margins turns this kind of act into flowing more cash into the pockets of for-profit development corporations. Zero-profit development should be mandatory. What evidence is there that the housing crisis is caused by profiteering in the construction industry? Are construction margins significantly fatter in california/US than other developed countries? What's preventing new entrants from setting up their own construction companies and undercutting the incumbents?

mistrial9 4y ago

except, in California and elsewhere, there is a new, large population of hardened homeless, complete with a menu of mental illness, emotional damage including prison and police interactions, and super, ultra-strong drugs on a daily basis. What ordinary apartment could house populations like this? Since California desires no undocumented slums, as found commonly on a large scale in the South Americas, someone has to build something. The real danger is similar to totally crooked locals like Phil Tagami in Oakland, who has a "housing project" that has been going for TWELVE YEARS without building anything, nothing. Other crooked people involved, depending on how you define it. If this money results in actual buildings that can handle the intended crowds, that are not prisons, that is progress here.

notch898a 4y ago
Maybe we should just offer a one way ticket to anyone who desires to go to Swain's Island, where all the fentanyl and other hard drugs they like will be provided with pharmaceutical grade purity. Anyone caught performing property or other crime with an identifiable 3rd party victim will be offered the choice to serve their term in California or a one way ticket to Fentanyl town on Swain's Island where they can get high to their heart's content.
- reducesuffering 4y ago
  And if your child or sibling hits a rough patch, becomes a drug user, and chooses their inevitable death on Swains Island before you can do anything about it, you will still think it’s a good idea?
  - notch898a 4y ago
    What if my child hits a rough patch and becomes the victim of a drug user? So much the better if that drug user instead chose voluntarily to enjoy all the drugs they like on Swain's Island.
    - eurasiantiger 4y ago
      Nice stereotype.
      - notch898a 4y ago
        Crickets from you regarding the whole premise here that relies on my counterparty's "stereotype" that a drug user will choose "inevitable death" when able to dose themselves with clean pharmaceutical grade drugs without cost. At least I didn't make it a personal comment about the individual inclination of the counterparty's children like they did about mine. I reject your use of the word "stereotype" here but if it applies it is clear you're using it with extreme prejudice. Although it is kind of hilarious to see essentially don't stereotype drug users, who will all kill themselves with drugs if given the chance. Which of course is a position that is neatly and compactly contradictory.
        eurasiantiger 4y ago
        I never wrote or implied any of that.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  Love to see that straightforwardly eliminationist rhetoric on "hacker" "news." We are all so smart contrarian and cool you can tell because we tolerate even endorse this sort of thing as long as you keep a calm tone.
  - notch898a 4y ago
    I'm merely advocating these individuals be given their own territory where they can pursue their dream with freedom and excellent knowledge of the content of their drugs, free from threat of arrest for possession or the irregularities of the unknown black market stomped on cocktails.
    - mistrial9 4y ago
      remarkably, there is a large and prolonged historical project that fits this description very well ! It was the exiles of France, under Catholic approval, sent to the swampy exile of the Atlantic Coast of South America.. (near modern Guyana I think) This happened just after the Napoleonic Wars (?) and lasted a very long time, with many many thousands sent away. The move Papillon is based on the story of a man that survived it, as I recall. If you watch the movie, please tell others about it! "Papillon is a 2017 drama film directed by Michael Noer that tells the story of French convict Henri Charrière (Charlie Hunnam), nicknamed Papillon ("butterfly"), who was falsely imprisoned in the notorious Devil's Island penal colony and escaped in 1941 with the help of convicted counterfeiter Louis Dega (Rami Malek). Additionally, Papillon is a 1973 epic historical drama prison film directed by Franklin J. Schaffner and based on Henri Charrière’s 1969 autobiography"
      - notch898a 4y ago
        Thank you for the recommendation!

lxm 4y ago

"Non-profit" just encourages padding expenses along the way. City of LA had access to government-owned land, fairly large pool of labor and probably some bulk discounts on building materials. Yet after you add consultants, construction unions and other well-connected entities jumping onto the gravy train, average unit ended up above $600k, way above an average "for-profit" luxury condo in LA https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-23/la-paying-600-000-apiece-for-units-to-house-homeless-people?leadSource=uverify%20wall https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-23/la-paying...

ehvatum 4y ago
Having worked with the St. Louis housing authority in the past, I bid work for urban development authorities at a 10x multiplier, and I am elated to tell my investors that we tried, and our bids were rejected. You cannot possibly imagine the pain and frustration of building for inner-city urban development government organizations. They exist to perpetuate the problems that perpetuate their existence. The worse things get, the more funding they get.

gruez 4y ago

>Such an extreme measure without strict requirements on developer profit margins turns this kind of act into flowing more cash into the pockets of for-profit development corporations. Zero-profit development should be mandatory. What evidence is there that the housing crisis is caused by profiteering in the construction industry? Are construction margins significantly fatter in california/US than other developed countries? What's preventing new entrants from setting up their own construction companies and undercutting the incumbents?