4 ms·

If neoliberalism was the cause, why didn’t other neoliberal economies develop the same problem?

by simple-thoughts 4y ago

harvey9 4y ago
How do you know they didn't?
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  Among major economies the US is the only one besides South Korea where suicide rates have increased since 1997. See graph[1] from this paywalled story [2]. More impressionistically the Irish, British and Australian press don’t talk about deaths of despair. Less impressionistically there’s no evidence for them outside the the US[3]. > 'Deaths of despair' on the rise in the US: Why here and not in other nations? > Mortality rates in the United States have increased, with suicide and poisoning by alcohol and drugs significantly contributing to the increase, alongside the cardiovascular effects of rising obesity. The causes of despair-related deaths involve factors such as increased isolation and people’s attempts to use substances to satisfy a lack of dopamine in the brain. Some experts suggest that the United States should look at how other countries support the human life cycle and adopt these policies to help prevent despair-related deaths. [1]https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=pmpwebNk&id=098C9CADEF08772563E002B5AC5C67E02A36C13D&thid=OIP.pmpwebNkSSktdA1N2ysHPwHaJ6&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2F640-width%2Fimages%2Fprint-edition%2F20181124_IRC811.png&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.a66a7079b36449292d740d4ddb2b073f%3Frik%3DPcE2KuBnXKy1Ag%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=857&expw=640&q=suicide+is+declining+almost+everywhere&simid=607990159255281067&form=IRPRST&ck=4B3D0410D483A9EA741157F6E68A24EE&selectedindex=4&vt=4&sim=11 https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=pmpweb... [2] https://www.economist.com/international/2018/11/24/suicide-is-declining-almost-everywhere?fsrc=rss%7Cint https://www.economist.com/international/2018/11/24/suicide-i... [3] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/deaths-of-despair-on-the-rise-in-the-us-why-here-and-not-in-other-nations https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/deaths-of-despair-...
  - harvey9 4y ago
    I don't have any confidence in Russian or Chinese public health data, and little confidence in the data from India. That said, in the case of India: at the start of the pandemic the government _asked the urban construction industry_ for their views on reinstating rail services which could enable internal migrant workers to return to their villages and thus potentially deprive industry of labour - a move which I argue puts the country closer to fascism than neoliberalism. The fact that the phrase deaths of despair has not been reused much outside the USA at best tells us something about propagation of language.
    - barry-cotter 4y ago
      > The fact that the phrase deaths of despair has not been reused much outside the USA at best tells us something about propagation of language. This is ridiculous. US culture is so overwhelmingly influential people there were Black Lives Matter protests in 40 countries outside the US[1]. The US’ cultural dependencies would absolutely be talking about deaths of despair if they had them. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/map-george-floyd-protests-countries-worldwide-n1228391 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/map-george-floyd-protests...
  - jimlongton 4y ago
    > More impressionistically the Irish, British and Australian press don’t talk about deaths of despair. While that phrase is uniquely American, it certainly has been used to describe decreases in living conditions in the UK. [1] It's impossible to accurately compare the US with Western Europe where we've had social safety nets and affordable health care. Unfortunately, in the UK a decade of under-staffing, under-funding and stealth privatisation has crippled the NHS. If you go to the former industrial towns in England you can definitely see the same issues as America's Rustbelt play out but to a lesser extent.I think most Europeans would be shocked by the poverty and deprivation in certain parts of the UK. [1] https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/podcast/episode-04-deaths-of-despair https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/podcast/episode-0...
Bermion 4y ago
Which neoliberal economies do not have the same issues?
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  Singapore Taiwan Japan South Korea
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    Japan and South Korea definitely have those problems. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokushi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokushi and https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/22/s-korea-breaks-record-for-worlds-lowest-fertility-rate-again https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/22/s-korea-breaks-reco...
    - barry-cotter 4y ago
      Only South Korea, possibly. The US and South Korea are the only countries I’m aware of where suicide rates have increased since 1997.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
tremon 4y ago
They do, they're just behind on the curve. Take a look at England outside of London, for example. I don't know any other economies are as neoliberal as the USA (and have been for a similar time), so I'm not sure which countries you are referring to?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
barry-cotter 4y ago
Because the problem is mostly fentanyl overdoses. Other developed countries don’t have to deal with this for reasons that are a mystery to me. > Fentanyl-related deaths are coded as synthetic opioid-related deaths. Fentanyl comprises approximately 90% of the synthetic opioids category, the CDC said. > The spokesperson said “accidents (unintentional injuries)” was the leading cause of death in the age 18-45 group in 2021. > If one were to break out the unintentional injury category to make the drug categories rankable, the leading cause for people ages 18-45 would be unintentional drug overdose due to synthetic opioids. That number would exceed the second highest leading cause of death (suicide in 2020 and COVID-19 in 2021.) https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2023/02/02/fentanyl-overdose-cause-of-death-among-adults-greg-abbott/69867350007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2023/02/02/fentanyl-over...

If neoliberalism was the cause, why didn’t other neoliberal economies develop the same problem?

harvey9 4y ago

How do you know they didn't?

barry-cotter 4y ago
Among major economies the US is the only one besides South Korea where suicide rates have increased since 1997. See graph[1] from this paywalled story [2]. More impressionistically the Irish, British and Australian press don’t talk about deaths of despair. Less impressionistically there’s no evidence for them outside the the US[3]. > 'Deaths of despair' on the rise in the US: Why here and not in other nations? > Mortality rates in the United States have increased, with suicide and poisoning by alcohol and drugs significantly contributing to the increase, alongside the cardiovascular effects of rising obesity. The causes of despair-related deaths involve factors such as increased isolation and people’s attempts to use substances to satisfy a lack of dopamine in the brain. Some experts suggest that the United States should look at how other countries support the human life cycle and adopt these policies to help prevent despair-related deaths. [1]https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=pmpwebNk&id=098C9CADEF08772563E002B5AC5C67E02A36C13D&thid=OIP.pmpwebNkSSktdA1N2ysHPwHaJ6&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2F640-width%2Fimages%2Fprint-edition%2F20181124_IRC811.png&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.a66a7079b36449292d740d4ddb2b073f%3Frik%3DPcE2KuBnXKy1Ag%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=857&expw=640&q=suicide+is+declining+almost+everywhere&simid=607990159255281067&form=IRPRST&ck=4B3D0410D483A9EA741157F6E68A24EE&selectedindex=4&vt=4&sim=11 https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=pmpweb... [2] https://www.economist.com/international/2018/11/24/suicide-is-declining-almost-everywhere?fsrc=rss%7Cint https://www.economist.com/international/2018/11/24/suicide-i... [3] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/deaths-of-despair-on-the-rise-in-the-us-why-here-and-not-in-other-nations https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/deaths-of-despair-...
- harvey9 4y ago
  I don't have any confidence in Russian or Chinese public health data, and little confidence in the data from India. That said, in the case of India: at the start of the pandemic the government _asked the urban construction industry_ for their views on reinstating rail services which could enable internal migrant workers to return to their villages and thus potentially deprive industry of labour - a move which I argue puts the country closer to fascism than neoliberalism. The fact that the phrase deaths of despair has not been reused much outside the USA at best tells us something about propagation of language.
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    > The fact that the phrase deaths of despair has not been reused much outside the USA at best tells us something about propagation of language. This is ridiculous. US culture is so overwhelmingly influential people there were Black Lives Matter protests in 40 countries outside the US[1]. The US’ cultural dependencies would absolutely be talking about deaths of despair if they had them. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/map-george-floyd-protests-countries-worldwide-n1228391 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/map-george-floyd-protests...
- jimlongton 4y ago
  > More impressionistically the Irish, British and Australian press don’t talk about deaths of despair. While that phrase is uniquely American, it certainly has been used to describe decreases in living conditions in the UK. [1] It's impossible to accurately compare the US with Western Europe where we've had social safety nets and affordable health care. Unfortunately, in the UK a decade of under-staffing, under-funding and stealth privatisation has crippled the NHS. If you go to the former industrial towns in England you can definitely see the same issues as America's Rustbelt play out but to a lesser extent.I think most Europeans would be shocked by the poverty and deprivation in certain parts of the UK. [1] https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/podcast/episode-04-deaths-of-despair https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/podcast/episode-0...

Bermion 4y ago

Which neoliberal economies do not have the same issues?

throwayyy479087 4y ago
Singapore Taiwan Japan South Korea
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  Japan and South Korea definitely have those problems. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokushi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokushi and https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/22/s-korea-breaks-record-for-worlds-lowest-fertility-rate-again https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/22/s-korea-breaks-reco...
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    Only South Korea, possibly. The US and South Korea are the only countries I’m aware of where suicide rates have increased since 1997.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

tremon 4y ago

They do, they're just behind on the curve. Take a look at England outside of London, for example. I don't know any other economies are as neoliberal as the USA (and have been for a similar time), so I'm not sure which countries you are referring to?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

barry-cotter 4y ago

Because the problem is mostly fentanyl overdoses. Other developed countries don’t have to deal with this for reasons that are a mystery to me. > Fentanyl-related deaths are coded as synthetic opioid-related deaths. Fentanyl comprises approximately 90% of the synthetic opioids category, the CDC said. > The spokesperson said “accidents (unintentional injuries)” was the leading cause of death in the age 18-45 group in 2021. > If one were to break out the unintentional injury category to make the drug categories rankable, the leading cause for people ages 18-45 would be unintentional drug overdose due to synthetic opioids. That number would exceed the second highest leading cause of death (suicide in 2020 and COVID-19 in 2021.) https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2023/02/02/fentanyl-overdose-cause-of-death-among-adults-greg-abbott/69867350007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2023/02/02/fentanyl-over...