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> Let’s think of it this way: would you switch to a phone that didn’t have a native Gmail app? Or Twitter? TikTok? Instagram? It would take an inordinate amount

by devsda 4y ago

> Let’s think of it this way: would you switch to a phone that didn’t have a native Gmail app? Or Twitter? TikTok? Instagram? It would take an inordinate amount of time just for those companies to port over their software — and they’re some of the best-resourced organisations in the world Another reason, many of these apps collect lots of user data to monetize it. Judging by the way they reacted to iOS privacy changes, we can guess how a more privacy focused OS will be treated. Even if /e/OS has android app compatibility, there's no guarantee that these vendors will not cripple functionality when they detect that the OS is not android.

palata 4y ago
> Even if /e/OS has android app compatibility, there's no guarantee that these vendors will not cripple functionality when they detect that the OS is not android. /e/ OS is Android. Just without the Google & Co trackers. /e/ OS does not prevent apps from leaking your data: it removes the trackers from the system. Then you have to choose your apps wisely, like on any other OS.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  Yes, but, note for comparison how, firefox, chrome or its derivatives are treated when they try to use Origin, NoScript and the like. Websites don't like it. It used to be they would try to fail gracefully, but that is increasingly not the case. More often than not, I get an error suggesting I don't use firefox ( the error is not really about firefox since website works just fine with extensions turned off ).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - palata 4y ago
    Right. Yeah sure, apps can cripple functionality if they detect that there are no Google Services. In fact some apps just crash. In my 2 years on a de-Googled phones, I have had only 2 apps that crashed (presumably because I don't have the Google Services), one of which I did not really care about. The other is my banking app though, so I just had to get used to not having it :-).
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
      Do you have a blog where you keep a record of your experiences running de-googled device? Right now I kept going for the extremes ( either full on vendor lock in or pinephone ), but I don't think I tried middle ground yet. Maybe that would be something I should try.
      - palata 4y ago
        I don't. Maybe it would be worth writing one some day? But quickly here: I used CyanogenMod on a Galaxy S2 10 years ago, then Lineage on an S4. I liked them, but clearly that was "experimenting with alternative ROMs". I had bugs, crashes, sometimes the camera would not work, etc. I have tried a PinePhone for fun in 2020, which was mostly a good opportunity to learn about PostmarketOS. That's a nice Linux project, but it didn't work as a phone for me. Two years ago, I got a FairPhone 3+ Murena (i.e. with /e/ OS pre-installed). The experience has been extremely close to a vendor ROM: I essentially have not touched/tuned/reinstalled anything, I use it like any vendor Android I've had in my life. That's a big change from my previous experiences where I was expecting things to go wrong. The big difference with Google-Android is that I don't have the Play Store and the Play Services (so GMail and Google Maps won't work). /e/ OS has their own store ("App Lounge") which works really well and can connect to the Play Store. I am not a very heavy user of my phone (I'm a dev, so my main is the computer): messaging apps, web browser, public transport app, stuff like this. Most work, I have only had to give up on my banking app a month ago (presumably an update makes it crash because I don't have the Play Services?). I had to adapt a few things though. I use CalDAV to fetch my Google Calendar (for work), the /e/ OS Mail app (which is a fork of K-9 Mail) to fetch my Google Emails (works great). I use Organic Maps (open source fork of MAPS.ME) and OSMAnd instead of Google Maps (it's a bit different, but OpenStreetMaps is an amazing project). I use NewPipe instead of YouTube, and that's about it. For the rest I use the normal apps (WhatsApp, Signal, Threema, public transport, PeakFinder, Lichess... Maybe I had to get Spotify Lite instead of Spotify (I don't see a difference). Overall, with the way I use my phone, I don't think I've really had to compromise. I would say that the biggest thing is probably Google Maps which sometimes works a bit better than my alternatives (which are great). But that's mostly stuff like friends making fun of me because I need 1 minute to find something on the map when their Google Map just spontaneously showed it because it knew they were thinking about it :-). My advice would be: choose a phone that is supported by the OS you want. Murena is a great program for /e/ OS, I'm sure CalyxOS says which phones they support. GrapheneOS is a bit more aggressive in terms of security, so I think you would have to compromise a bit more. That's why I went for /e/ OS in the first place, and I'm super happy. CalyxOS seems similar, but I don't have experience there. I hope this helps!
em-bee 4y ago
/e/OS IS android (based on LineageOS) supporting google services through microg

by devsda 4y ago

palata 4y ago

> Even if /e/OS has android app compatibility, there's no guarantee that these vendors will not cripple functionality when they detect that the OS is not android. /e/ OS is Android. Just without the Google & Co trackers. /e/ OS does not prevent apps from leaking your data: it removes the trackers from the system. Then you have to choose your apps wisely, like on any other OS.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
Yes, but, note for comparison how, firefox, chrome or its derivatives are treated when they try to use Origin, NoScript and the like. Websites don't like it. It used to be they would try to fail gracefully, but that is increasingly not the case. More often than not, I get an error suggesting I don't use firefox ( the error is not really about firefox since website works just fine with extensions turned off ).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- palata 4y ago
  Right. Yeah sure, apps can cripple functionality if they detect that there are no Google Services. In fact some apps just crash. In my 2 years on a de-Googled phones, I have had only 2 apps that crashed (presumably because I don't have the Google Services), one of which I did not really care about. The other is my banking app though, so I just had to get used to not having it :-).
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    Do you have a blog where you keep a record of your experiences running de-googled device? Right now I kept going for the extremes ( either full on vendor lock in or pinephone ), but I don't think I tried middle ground yet. Maybe that would be something I should try.
    - palata 4y ago
      I don't. Maybe it would be worth writing one some day? But quickly here: I used CyanogenMod on a Galaxy S2 10 years ago, then Lineage on an S4. I liked them, but clearly that was "experimenting with alternative ROMs". I had bugs, crashes, sometimes the camera would not work, etc. I have tried a PinePhone for fun in 2020, which was mostly a good opportunity to learn about PostmarketOS. That's a nice Linux project, but it didn't work as a phone for me. Two years ago, I got a FairPhone 3+ Murena (i.e. with /e/ OS pre-installed). The experience has been extremely close to a vendor ROM: I essentially have not touched/tuned/reinstalled anything, I use it like any vendor Android I've had in my life. That's a big change from my previous experiences where I was expecting things to go wrong. The big difference with Google-Android is that I don't have the Play Store and the Play Services (so GMail and Google Maps won't work). /e/ OS has their own store ("App Lounge") which works really well and can connect to the Play Store. I am not a very heavy user of my phone (I'm a dev, so my main is the computer): messaging apps, web browser, public transport app, stuff like this. Most work, I have only had to give up on my banking app a month ago (presumably an update makes it crash because I don't have the Play Services?). I had to adapt a few things though. I use CalDAV to fetch my Google Calendar (for work), the /e/ OS Mail app (which is a fork of K-9 Mail) to fetch my Google Emails (works great). I use Organic Maps (open source fork of MAPS.ME) and OSMAnd instead of Google Maps (it's a bit different, but OpenStreetMaps is an amazing project). I use NewPipe instead of YouTube, and that's about it. For the rest I use the normal apps (WhatsApp, Signal, Threema, public transport, PeakFinder, Lichess... Maybe I had to get Spotify Lite instead of Spotify (I don't see a difference). Overall, with the way I use my phone, I don't think I've really had to compromise. I would say that the biggest thing is probably Google Maps which sometimes works a bit better than my alternatives (which are great). But that's mostly stuff like friends making fun of me because I need 1 minute to find something on the map when their Google Map just spontaneously showed it because it knew they were thinking about it :-). My advice would be: choose a phone that is supported by the OS you want. Murena is a great program for /e/ OS, I'm sure CalyxOS says which phones they support. GrapheneOS is a bit more aggressive in terms of security, so I think you would have to compromise a bit more. That's why I went for /e/ OS in the first place, and I'm super happy. CalyxOS seems similar, but I don't have experience there. I hope this helps!

em-bee 4y ago

/e/OS IS android (based on LineageOS) supporting google services through microg