6 ms·

My Best Friend Died from Loneliness

68 points by fortran77 4y ago

foogazi 4y ago
I wonder if when I die someone will blame political parties for it
PaulHoule 4y ago
"Age" is not just an age but at a particular time it is a cohort, and the author's friend is a member of "Generation X" which has gone right down the memory hole between the boomers and millennials.
- sixothree 4y ago
  Hence the name - Gen X was named as such because they are the "Lost Generation".
photochemsyn 4y ago
"The Lives of Others" is an interesting German film about several aspects of East German society before the Fall of the Berlin Wall. The plot line involves a writer who exposes the hidden suicide epidemic (which we can interpret as a signal of the failure of the communist authoritarian system), and is targeted by the STASI in response. The author of this piece is writing something similar, but doesn't really grasp what aspects of the American system created the economic dystopia of 'flyover country' - but it began in the late 1970s, expanded through the 1980s, hit its stride in the 1990s and achieved total dominion in the 2000's, and it's called neoliberal economic policy - i.e. the elimination of nation-state controls on capital flows, the removal of well-paid manufacturing jobs to Mexico, China, Indonesia, India, the import of cheap labor to fill jobs in agriculture and construction that couldn't be outsourced (using tactics like dumping US agribusiness output in Mexico to drive small farmers into poverty). I mean, there's a reason we have something called 'The Rust Belt' stretching across mid-America, there's a reason the streets are filled with homeless encampments, and it's not because of moral breakdown or class-vs-identity politics, it's because of the trade and economic policies implemented by financial oligarchs and their paid-off politicians.
- 1234letshaveatw 4y ago
  The trade and economic policies have facilitated a massive transfer of wealth to the enclaves surrounding DC. We've basically created our own Coruscant.
- the_only_law 4y ago
  > the elimination of nation-state controls on capital flows, the removal of well-paid manufacturing jobs to Mexico, China, Indonesia, India, the import of cheap labor to fill jobs in agriculture and construction that couldn't be outsourced Woah now, but people were telling me just yesterday that all these people who lost their jobs found new high paying jobs.
- simple-thoughts 4y ago
  If neoliberalism was the cause, why didn’t other neoliberal economies develop the same problem?
  - harvey9 4y ago
    How do you know they didn't?
    - barry-cotter 4y ago
      Among major economies the US is the only one besides South Korea where suicide rates have increased since 1997. See graph[1] from this paywalled story [2]. More impressionistically the Irish, British and Australian press don’t talk about deaths of despair. Less impressionistically there’s no evidence for them outside the the US[3]. > 'Deaths of despair' on the rise in the US: Why here and not in other nations? > Mortality rates in the United States have increased, with suicide and poisoning by alcohol and drugs significantly contributing to the increase, alongside the cardiovascular effects of rising obesity. The causes of despair-related deaths involve factors such as increased isolation and people’s attempts to use substances to satisfy a lack of dopamine in the brain. Some experts suggest that the United States should look at how other countries support the human life cycle and adopt these policies to help prevent despair-related deaths. [1]https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=pmpwebNk&id=098C9CADEF08772563E002B5AC5C67E02A36C13D&thid=OIP.pmpwebNkSSktdA1N2ysHPwHaJ6&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2F640-width%2Fimages%2Fprint-edition%2F20181124_IRC811.png&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.a66a7079b36449292d740d4ddb2b073f%3Frik%3DPcE2KuBnXKy1Ag%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=857&expw=640&q=suicide+is+declining+almost+everywhere&simid=607990159255281067&form=IRPRST&ck=4B3D0410D483A9EA741157F6E68A24EE&selectedindex=4&vt=4&sim=11 https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=pmpweb... [2] https://www.economist.com/international/2018/11/24/suicide-is-declining-almost-everywhere?fsrc=rss%7Cint https://www.economist.com/international/2018/11/24/suicide-i... [3] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/deaths-of-despair-on-the-rise-in-the-us-why-here-and-not-in-other-nations https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/deaths-of-despair-...
keithalewis 4y ago
[flagged]
bowsamic 4y ago
Weird kind of post to lock behind a pay wall imo
- rendall 4y ago
  I know it's against guidelines to say this, but it's weird that it got to the front page of HN. ::Neil deGrasse Tyson emoji::
buggythebug 4y ago
[flagged]
- EMM_386 4y ago
  You can have best friends and still be lonely.
  - buggythebug 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - manuelmoreale 4y ago
    Isn't that counter intuitive? Isn't a friend supposed to be a positive presence in someone's life? How can you have friends and still be lonely?
    - jzb 4y ago
      Having a friend does it mean that you have access to that friend all of the time or even most of the time. Adult friendships are usually held by people who have very busy lives with their family and other friends. There are a lot of popular tropes and memes about adult friendship being a series of “we should catch up soon” back and forth until one of you dies. It doesn’t mean the friendships aren’t real. But having children and a job can pretty much suck the oxygen completely out of the ability to have and maintain frequent contact with friends. I’m in my 50s and have several friends that I would consider very very good friends. We all have very different schedules and family obligations. If I’m very lucky, I might see them once a month. This isn’t like college when you might see your friend every day for several hours. So if you’re a single person and your friends have families, it’s real possible to be lonely in the spaces between when you get to spend time with your friends.
      - manuelmoreale 4y ago
        > I’m in my 50s and have several friends that I would consider very very good friends. We all have very different schedules and family obligations. If I’m very lucky, I might see them once a month. And that's absolutely ok. That is life. But I'm also sure that if one of those friends needs you or you feel that he needs some kind of help, you'd find time for them because that's what friends do.
lordleft 4y ago
I come from an tight-knit immigrant family. One thing I've learned from my parents and grandparents is that you can be poor, you can even be oppressed, and yet endure if you have others.
- Pet_Ant 4y ago
  I grew up in a ghetto (part of a migrant wave) and as we became more succesful and moved out and moved apart... I miss that community that poverty forced upon us.
- jprete 4y ago
  There's a lot of value in having a community. But since it can't be commoditized and sold, capitalism doesn't know how to increase it. Instead we get increases in measurable things, and economists pretend those are the only things that matter.
  - complianceowl 4y ago
    I don't know why I'm even responding to you -- but, the decision to isolate ourselves in pursuit of status, career obsession, and a life full of materialism -- is completely our own doing. And in other Capitalistic societies, like Mexico, the tight-knit, community-oriented culture is still alive and well, as is the case in many other countries that are also capitalistic. Your ideology has blinded you.
    - jprete 4y ago
      That is a good point. I'm also not usually that ideological, so thanks for pointing that out.
    - shanebellone 4y ago
      I'm growing increasingly convinced that the US is anomalous, in many ways, because our society is individual-focused. I believe the preoccupation with self is fundamentally responsible for the proliferation of gun violence.
flyingfences 4y ago
https://archive.is/fo3jV https://archive.is/fo3jV
- scohesc 4y ago
  Thank you. Very frustrating to notice half-way through the article that the text is slowly getting more and more pale - I thought my vision was going for a couple minutes or so, then I saw the "SUBSCRIBE" No thanks, archive.is to the rescue!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - siverson914 4y ago
    Same. I appreciated the irony. > THE FREE PRESS > This post is for paying subscribers only
    - somedude895 4y ago
      Free as in freedom, not free as in gratis
      - AvAurora 4y ago
        If i open source a project, but throw the code to the bottom of the mariannas trench is it open source? The issue with newspapers is that i need to pay for all of them individualy, they need to make a service like spotify where you subscribe and then the funds are allocated to each company dependant on what articles youre reading.
  - Thoreandan 4y ago
    Also effective: nuking the <head> section in dev tools.
- rideontime 4y ago
  The paywall is still present here, but at least the ridiculous faded text is gone. Missing the ending but I guess the headline spoiled that anyway.
anon291 4y ago
It is common for people in particular social circles to maintain the erroneous belief that the GOP is all about free markets and small government. This is wrong. It just so happens that the sorts of Republicans one is most likely to meet in silicon valley or New York city or Los Angeles tend to be this kind of libertarian Republican. These are also the richest Republicans and sometimes the most vocal in the kinds of media consumed by liberals, which explains the confusion Most republicans do not care about free market purity and certainly do not care about making government smaller. For example, the majority of Republicans (myself included) praised trump for his establishment of proper protective tariffs. This isn't what is typically meant by neoliberal free markets. Moreover, I would like to see the government grow, just not in the way the Democratic party and many democrats do. Most republicans think like me.
- Pet_Ant 4y ago
  > Moreover, I would like to see the government grow, just not in the way the Democratic party and many democrats do. In which way are those? > Most republicans think like me. I don't want this to sound like a snarky "[Citation Needed]", and I believe you believe that, but how are you so certain that this is true and no just your local circle or your own projection? I mean Ted Nuggent just called Zelensky -a man with a wife- a gay man at a political rally. I don't see what you are saying reflected in the republicans I see.
  - anon291 4y ago
    > In which way are those? Sure. Let's go over a few topics. Please don't argue with me about them. You asked for my beliefs, not a debate. 1. Police -- I believe we need more police and more jails. I don't at all understand the democratic concern over mass incarceration. If someone has committed a crime, they should be in jail. The concern I often get from white liberals (I'm not white) is that white people are not being punished for the same crimes non-whites are. That's a terrible thing if true, and I believe we should have more jails and police in that case. Police are a form of government. I would happily pay more taxes for more jails. In my city, people are routinely released due to no prison space, and in several instances have gone on to kill their victims (i.e., a domestic abuser now is a murderer; easily prevented had we kept them in jail). I actually would pay 100% of my income in taxes if it meant we actually kept people in jail. Law enforcement is a basic responsibility of the government. I am not against social programs to help economic development to attempt to deter people from criminality. However, releasing people from jail is not a meaningful way to lower prison stats. 2. Social Life -- I believe the government should be more involved in community and social life. I believe the government should institute programs to prevent divorce and encourage marriage and child-bearing. I would also like to see the government actively promote stay at home parents via the tax code. Marriage should be encouraged. Those taking care of elderly parents should receive heavy tax breaks. Tax brackets should be changed to be even more progressive for single income earners / married couples without kids. Social media for children should be banned. Pornography should be restricted to adults who can prove their age (exact same standard as strip clubs and night clubs.. it is ridiculous my local tiki bar has more regulations regarding minors entering it than pornhub). The War on Drugs should continue. Social media of particular community sizes should be highly regulated in what kinds of speech they can censor / what ways they can censor it (censorship should be opt-in, not imposed). 3. Economic development -- The government should take an active approach to managing American imports / exports, including taxation standards, preferences for buying American made goods, active punishment for companies choosing to do business with non-friendly states, like China and Russia. We should by and large adopt an America first mentality on economics and defense issues. 4. Immigration -- The federal government quite obviously needs more immigration enforcement, including physical barriers. I cannot honestly comprehend how people do not understand this. By and large our drug problem is caused by the Chinese communist party wishing to replay the Opium wars in reverse via the importation of cheap Chinese fentanyl via the Mexican border. This is a major national security concern. The government should immediately levy a tax of whatever amount necessary to construct a wall / fund border agencies. 5. Education -- The American education system needs to become more efficient. Useless educational programs subject to the whims of principals and administrators seeking their latest degrees need to be eliminated (my mother taught at an inner city school... I saw what happened there). Eliminate the 'right' of violent children to an education in the normal public school system. Eliminate government grants for majors not deemed in the national interest. Full scholarships for those studying subjects the country needs. I have never heard a democrat politician of any importance speak to these concerns. The democrats are ambivalent towards policing / (in my state at least) are attempting to lower the number of people in jail with disastrous affects / unwilling to criticize the more extreme ends of their party protesting on the streets and driving up the cost of policing. In terms of social life, it's an anything goes sort of policy. Economic development... well they've finally come around to it after years bashing Trump and other republicans (remember everyone making fun of Romney for saying Russia was the biggest national security threat... jokes on you!). On immigration, there is just denial. On education, sometimes they're into it, but mostly they just spend money on things that are useless. for example, my city is funding universal pre-school and day care, which is just dumb. Parents should be able to stay home with their children; this policy only further encourages the separation. Terrible. > I don't want this to sound like a snarky "[Citation Needed]", and I believe you believe that, but how are you so certain that this is true and no just your local circle or your own projection? I mean Ted Nuggent just called Zelensky -a man with a wife- a gay man at a political rally. I don't see what you are saying reflected in the republicans I see. I'm a republican; I've been a republican for many years. I know a lot of republicans (on the west coast at least). That's my source. I don't know who Ted Nugent is.
thenerdhead 4y ago
I think the author is trying to mix a eulogy and class based politics like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone But I fail to see the message from this article. He mentions many ways to potentially "save" his friend in the world of class based politics and not just being used as "pawns", but never talks about the regret of not being in constant contact with them over the 20+ years of corporate life and chain smoking since they parted ways.
Convolutional 4y ago
> The white working class used to be the focus of the American left, but the left abandoned us From World War I to the 1950s or 1960s, the idea that factory workers in Europe, or of European descent, might take over their countries, displacing the rich/capitalists/bourgeoisie, was an idea that was people took seriously, on all sides of the political spectrum. Not only would this class take over, but be the vanguard of the change. Does anyone think this is going to happen now? This article indicates an opinion on that question. A class of people taking power for themselves don't have to beg for pity from a coastal professional-managerial class. It would organize itself and take power.
- cies 4y ago
  There is no "left" in the US, not in mainstream politics anyway. The words needed to have a sensible political discussion are ill-defined and only add noise. I'm afraid it's beyond repair: we need a new vocab to discuss social issues, or we will never have the discussion at scale (and are doomed to live under capitalism until the collapse into autoritrianism).
monero-xmr 4y ago
It seems like he brushed aside a lot of stuff, and of course we didn’t get any of the other side of the story. He had his own condo which the author calls “bland”. That seems rather mean. It seems rather ungraceful to frame an entire man’s life and death around American politics and say for 50 years he was a miserable nothing. I would like to hear this man’s side of the story instead.
lapcat 4y ago
It's unclear what kind of political message we can take from this one person's life and death story. After all, the title says he died from loneliness, but I'm not aware of any political party that has a proposal to directly address this real issue. Of course there are various political policies that could have improved Mike's life in several ways, but whether they would have changed the ultimate outcome, who knows. "He had stopped trying to meet a woman by his late thirties." I'm not saying there weren't any economic aspects to that, but the author doesn't explain exactly how his partisan political analysis is relevant to that, how either party would have or could have helped. There's no obvious, conclusive logical inference from Democrats forgetting about the working class — which may be true! — to Mike's loneliness.
- didgetmaster 4y ago
  Plenty of partisans will look at a story like this and tell themselves 'if only my party (R or D) just had more power, this wouldn't happen'. Although government policies can definitely have an effect on the lives of all Americans; cases like this one cannot be solved by government programs. The people we surround ourselves with (family, friends, neighbors) have a far greater influence over our emotional and social well-being than some faceless bureaucracy in Washington D.C.
- hattmall 4y ago
  Democratic policies have consistently squeezed the working class into a perpetual grind. We are seeing that to an extreme level now with the current inflation. There is essentially no time for self actualization and the pursuit of happiness. If you can't break out of the working grind into being wealthy and you don't want to go into the bottom and become reliant on the government then you are increasingly fucked. The barrier to rising into wealth is ever increasing as well. Life expectancy is quickly falling to intersect the retirement age. The median household income is about half of what's needed to own the median home. The student loan crisis has many starting out in tremendous debt just to be able to work until they die!
  - watwut 4y ago
    Mike was not exactly economically unsuccessful. He had a job, had no debt, had a condo. It was "in a faceless St. Louis suburb" per author taste, but there is no mention of Mike actually complaining about that. There is no mention of Mike saying anything or having opinion on anything, except brief interest in Holocaust and failing to find a job with the Texas Democratic Party. Mike is not example of squeezed working class. And even less example of being squeezed by democrats specifically.
labrador 4y ago
Since 2000, white working-class Americans between the ages of 45 and 54 have been one of the only demographics in the world that has seen its life expectancy fall. These deaths are mostly suicides. Some are officially blamed on alcoholism and addiction, but that’s just suicide in slow motion. As an recovered addict/alcoholic I've heard every sad story in the book. If you find yourself similarly trapped in the personal drama of substance use disorder, know that in your neighborhood there is likely a 12 step meeting with free coffee and cookies where people will greet you and even get you to have a laugh at your common predicament. As my buddy Jimmy B used to tell me "you're a special case of the same old thing". Don't listen to the do gooders who feel sorry for you because that sh*t is deadly.
- kar5pt 4y ago
  12 steps work great for a lot of people, but we need to be careful not to push the narrative that it's a cure-all for addiction. 12 steppers often act like it is and blame the addict for not trying hard enough if the 12 steps don't work for them. The latest research shows that at best it works for 1/3 of addicts/alcoholics. This makes sense since mental illness is complicated and we wouldn't expect a single treatment to work for everybody. What we really need is better research to develop treatment methods that don't require people to essentially join a new religion and devote 5-10 hours of volunteer participation for the rest of their lives (I think it's understandable that not everyone wants to adopt this lifestyle). I fear that the "12 steps for everybody" model of addiction treatment gets in the way of that.
bioemerl 4y ago
Man. I get that it's a sad story, but I got a few paragraphs into this and the "heartstrings pulling" the article was doing made me stop reading. It feels like it's trying to make me sad and empathetic, and that makes me feel it's manipulative.
- Balgair 4y ago
  Meta comment: TheFP is kinda like that. Weiss et al. are still finding their voice and trying to turn the substack into something more. It's not going well. Honestly, it's kinda the same libertarianism over and over again. Weird unpasteurized milk articles, complaining about college undergrads and admins, purported insider views of Washington from obvious outsiders, complaints about getting into the Ivy leagues, etc. Like most libertarian stuff, it's people stuck in their 20s realizing that their life isn't going to plan. Like, 'this year I'm going to learn Spanish/practice piano/be more intentional' Great, sure, have fun, I really do mean that. Everyone with kids and a mortgage and responsibilities has moved on from these, I dunno, frivolous/childish/trying-to-create-meaning things (not good with English today, sorry!). TheFP is kinda stuck in that zeitgeist.
  - watwut 4y ago
    > Like, 'this year I'm going to learn Spanish/practice piano/be more intentional' Great, sure, have fun, I really do mean that. Everyone with kids and a mortgage and responsibilities has moved on from these, I dunno They come back to it as kids get older and don't need that much of your time. If feels unbelievable and impossible at first, but slowly it comes back and you start learning things and finding hobbies again. None of the things you mentioned is childish either. Especially nit learning foreign languages. That is like ... super adult thing.
throwawaysalome 4y ago
Sounds like he died from sepsis. The Republicans need to do something about that.
irrational 4y ago
I’m not sure why political parties would be expected to fix these things (which seemed to be the authors thesis). How would government fix loneliness, lack of spouse, lack of grit, failed marriages, domestic abuse, teenage rebellion, bullying, chain smoking, alcoholism, and all the things ailing the white middle class (men?) according to the author?
- readthenotes1 4y ago
  "How would government fix loneliness, lack of spouse, lack of grit, failed marriages, domestic abuse, teenage rebellion, bullying, chain smoking, alcoholism, and all the things ailing the white middle class (men?) according to the author? " George Orwell had an answer to that.
  - nozzlegear 4y ago
    It's been a long time since I've read any Orwell, and maybe I've not had enough coffee this morning to make the connection on my own. Could you tell us what Orwell's answer would be?
    - readthenotes1 4y ago
      1984, the government told you what to think and feel and say. Perfect Nanny state...
- michaelt 4y ago
  It depends how powerful and effective you think government interventions can be; and what level of government intervention is moral. Could the government reverse the export of manufacturing jobs to the far east? If you believe they can, you might think that would improve the lot of the working class. Or is that beyond the power of the state? Could the government rebrand pink collar jobs like nursing, where demand is rising due to our ageing population, to be more gender-neutral and higher status? Or is that beyond the power of the state? Are there social organisations like sports clubs which the government could make easier to set up and operate? Or has the state already done all it can in that area? Should the government be providing venues like town halls, sports facilities and libraries in every town? Or is that better left to the private sector anyway? How far should the government go in regulating tobacco and alcohol? America has gone as far as prohibition in the past. Or should adults have as few limits on freedom of choice as possible? The government is more than happy to support films that glorify the American military. And other countries have far more heavy-handed media controls. Given the government is willing to support films and TV that advance certain values, why not advance pro-having-grit and anti-domestic-abuse messages as well as pro-military messages? What about getting more people into church? I'm not religious myself, but I know it's important to a lot of people and loads of people get married in churches. But some would say the separation of church and state is more important than other concerns. Some people think the mighty and powerful state could deliver all those things, given the will to do so. Others would expect a lot less.
javier123454321 4y ago
Agreed that the endless drive for career in the US makes me feel lonelier than anywhere else I've lived. But, calling friends and acquaintances, having them over, and normalizing hanging out seems to ease that a bit. Maybe people should try that and not make a huge deal out of getting together in people's houses. That's completely normal in latin america.
watwut 4y ago
I find multiple claims in that article dubious. And I do not even think it is accurate in describing what democrats believed or done. It is not clear what loneliness has to do with the rest of the article. It is not clear why author claims the Mike died of loneliness. And all in all, it sounds like standard conservativism. Stringing things together, just so you can imply blame the other side without actually saying anything. Pretend that Clintons comment was about white working class specifically when that is simply a lie. Mike does not seem to be particularly unsuccessful person. I do not know what him being single or him not liking his standard corporate job has to do with democrats. Mike was not an unsuccessful unemployed person with no prospects - he was not too happy in his job and did not succeeded in politics. Mike came from parents that failed him massively at multiple points. Later on failed to connect with people, could not forging friendships or family. Short of psychotherapy paid from insurance, nothing in politics can fix this. More protection for kids might prevent future Mikes. This was not caused by feminism nor by anti-racist movements later in his life. Plus as I told, some dubious claims. > That so many of us who made it to campus never learned the cues, lingos, tastes, and mannerisms of the upper classes, which are, in a way, more important than the degree. That was the subtext of J.D. Vance’s Hillbilly Elegy. Was this an actual subtext of that book? Because imo it was not. Actual subtext was that poor whites deserve to be poor, because they make bad choices. J.D. Vance’s policies later on were to remove parts of social system. > Since 2000, white working-class Americans between the ages of 45 and 54 have been one of the only demographics in the world that has seen its life expectancy fall. These deaths are mostly suicides. Is this an actual true? Is this an actual true in 2023 right after epidemic, right after finding out that child mortality is going up, right after births became more dangerous?
johnea 4y ago
[flagged]
sacnoradhq 4y ago
America has 2 core problems leading to intense despair: low wages and lack of community. Substance abuse, screen addiction, depression and suicide, relationshiplessness, friendlessness, childlessness, populist fascism, and mass shootings are all signals pointing to a rotten core that doesn't meet basic human needs: connection and affording necessities. Growing up, my grandparents knew most of their neighbors on the block and had them over frequently. I rarely see that anymore as most people treat neighbors and strangers with automatic suspicion if not hostility or contempt. This is a terrible cultural attitude that leads to suffering and loneliness. Interestingly, I hear community is still a thing in a number of non-G20 countries. If anyone wants a nicer country, individuals need to take pro-social chances to encourage real talk about their struggles and good vibes with those around them, starting at home and anyone they meet. Community doesn't cost money, it costs time and emotional reserves. Paying Americans fair wages and not overworking them is the result of unregulated laissez-faire capitalism that balks at any and all suggestions of reform as "communism". Except for China, almost no one else works on a constant crash schedule.

68 points by fortran77 4y ago

I wonder if when I die someone will blame political parties for it

"Age" is not just an age but at a particular time it is a cohort, and the author's friend is a member of "Generation X" which has gone right down the memory hole between the boomers and millennials.

sixothree 4y ago
Hence the name - Gen X was named as such because they are the "Lost Generation".

photochemsyn 4y ago

"The Lives of Others" is an interesting German film about several aspects of East German society before the Fall of the Berlin Wall. The plot line involves a writer who exposes the hidden suicide epidemic (which we can interpret as a signal of the failure of the communist authoritarian system), and is targeted by the STASI in response. The author of this piece is writing something similar, but doesn't really grasp what aspects of the American system created the economic dystopia of 'flyover country' - but it began in the late 1970s, expanded through the 1980s, hit its stride in the 1990s and achieved total dominion in the 2000's, and it's called neoliberal economic policy - i.e. the elimination of nation-state controls on capital flows, the removal of well-paid manufacturing jobs to Mexico, China, Indonesia, India, the import of cheap labor to fill jobs in agriculture and construction that couldn't be outsourced (using tactics like dumping US agribusiness output in Mexico to drive small farmers into poverty). I mean, there's a reason we have something called 'The Rust Belt' stretching across mid-America, there's a reason the streets are filled with homeless encampments, and it's not because of moral breakdown or class-vs-identity politics, it's because of the trade and economic policies implemented by financial oligarchs and their paid-off politicians.

1234letshaveatw 4y ago
The trade and economic policies have facilitated a massive transfer of wealth to the enclaves surrounding DC. We've basically created our own Coruscant.
the_only_law 4y ago
> the elimination of nation-state controls on capital flows, the removal of well-paid manufacturing jobs to Mexico, China, Indonesia, India, the import of cheap labor to fill jobs in agriculture and construction that couldn't be outsourced Woah now, but people were telling me just yesterday that all these people who lost their jobs found new high paying jobs.
simple-thoughts 4y ago
If neoliberalism was the cause, why didn’t other neoliberal economies develop the same problem?
- harvey9 4y ago
  How do you know they didn't?
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    Among major economies the US is the only one besides South Korea where suicide rates have increased since 1997. See graph[1] from this paywalled story [2]. More impressionistically the Irish, British and Australian press don’t talk about deaths of despair. Less impressionistically there’s no evidence for them outside the the US[3]. > 'Deaths of despair' on the rise in the US: Why here and not in other nations? > Mortality rates in the United States have increased, with suicide and poisoning by alcohol and drugs significantly contributing to the increase, alongside the cardiovascular effects of rising obesity. The causes of despair-related deaths involve factors such as increased isolation and people’s attempts to use substances to satisfy a lack of dopamine in the brain. Some experts suggest that the United States should look at how other countries support the human life cycle and adopt these policies to help prevent despair-related deaths. [1]https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=pmpwebNk&id=098C9CADEF08772563E002B5AC5C67E02A36C13D&thid=OIP.pmpwebNkSSktdA1N2ysHPwHaJ6&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2F640-width%2Fimages%2Fprint-edition%2F20181124_IRC811.png&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.a66a7079b36449292d740d4ddb2b073f%3Frik%3DPcE2KuBnXKy1Ag%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=857&expw=640&q=suicide+is+declining+almost+everywhere&simid=607990159255281067&form=IRPRST&ck=4B3D0410D483A9EA741157F6E68A24EE&selectedindex=4&vt=4&sim=11 https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=pmpweb... [2] https://www.economist.com/international/2018/11/24/suicide-is-declining-almost-everywhere?fsrc=rss%7Cint https://www.economist.com/international/2018/11/24/suicide-i... [3] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/deaths-of-despair-on-the-rise-in-the-us-why-here-and-not-in-other-nations https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/deaths-of-despair-...

keithalewis 4y ago

[flagged]

bowsamic 4y ago

Weird kind of post to lock behind a pay wall imo

rendall 4y ago
I know it's against guidelines to say this, but it's weird that it got to the front page of HN. ::Neil deGrasse Tyson emoji::

buggythebug 4y ago

[flagged]

EMM_386 4y ago
You can have best friends and still be lonely.
- buggythebug 4y ago
  [flagged]
- manuelmoreale 4y ago
  Isn't that counter intuitive? Isn't a friend supposed to be a positive presence in someone's life? How can you have friends and still be lonely?
  - jzb 4y ago
    Having a friend does it mean that you have access to that friend all of the time or even most of the time. Adult friendships are usually held by people who have very busy lives with their family and other friends. There are a lot of popular tropes and memes about adult friendship being a series of “we should catch up soon” back and forth until one of you dies. It doesn’t mean the friendships aren’t real. But having children and a job can pretty much suck the oxygen completely out of the ability to have and maintain frequent contact with friends. I’m in my 50s and have several friends that I would consider very very good friends. We all have very different schedules and family obligations. If I’m very lucky, I might see them once a month. This isn’t like college when you might see your friend every day for several hours. So if you’re a single person and your friends have families, it’s real possible to be lonely in the spaces between when you get to spend time with your friends.
    - manuelmoreale 4y ago
      > I’m in my 50s and have several friends that I would consider very very good friends. We all have very different schedules and family obligations. If I’m very lucky, I might see them once a month. And that's absolutely ok. That is life. But I'm also sure that if one of those friends needs you or you feel that he needs some kind of help, you'd find time for them because that's what friends do.

lordleft 4y ago

I come from an tight-knit immigrant family. One thing I've learned from my parents and grandparents is that you can be poor, you can even be oppressed, and yet endure if you have others.

Pet_Ant 4y ago
I grew up in a ghetto (part of a migrant wave) and as we became more succesful and moved out and moved apart... I miss that community that poverty forced upon us.
jprete 4y ago
There's a lot of value in having a community. But since it can't be commoditized and sold, capitalism doesn't know how to increase it. Instead we get increases in measurable things, and economists pretend those are the only things that matter.
- complianceowl 4y ago
  I don't know why I'm even responding to you -- but, the decision to isolate ourselves in pursuit of status, career obsession, and a life full of materialism -- is completely our own doing. And in other Capitalistic societies, like Mexico, the tight-knit, community-oriented culture is still alive and well, as is the case in many other countries that are also capitalistic. Your ideology has blinded you.
  - jprete 4y ago
    That is a good point. I'm also not usually that ideological, so thanks for pointing that out.
  - shanebellone 4y ago
    I'm growing increasingly convinced that the US is anomalous, in many ways, because our society is individual-focused. I believe the preoccupation with self is fundamentally responsible for the proliferation of gun violence.

flyingfences 4y ago

https://archive.is/fo3jV https://archive.is/fo3jV

scohesc 4y ago
Thank you. Very frustrating to notice half-way through the article that the text is slowly getting more and more pale - I thought my vision was going for a couple minutes or so, then I saw the "SUBSCRIBE" No thanks, archive.is to the rescue!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- siverson914 4y ago
  Same. I appreciated the irony. > THE FREE PRESS > This post is for paying subscribers only
  - somedude895 4y ago
    Free as in freedom, not free as in gratis
    - AvAurora 4y ago
      If i open source a project, but throw the code to the bottom of the mariannas trench is it open source? The issue with newspapers is that i need to pay for all of them individualy, they need to make a service like spotify where you subscribe and then the funds are allocated to each company dependant on what articles youre reading.
- Thoreandan 4y ago
  Also effective: nuking the <head> section in dev tools.
rideontime 4y ago
The paywall is still present here, but at least the ridiculous faded text is gone. Missing the ending but I guess the headline spoiled that anyway.

anon291 4y ago

It is common for people in particular social circles to maintain the erroneous belief that the GOP is all about free markets and small government. This is wrong. It just so happens that the sorts of Republicans one is most likely to meet in silicon valley or New York city or Los Angeles tend to be this kind of libertarian Republican. These are also the richest Republicans and sometimes the most vocal in the kinds of media consumed by liberals, which explains the confusion Most republicans do not care about free market purity and certainly do not care about making government smaller. For example, the majority of Republicans (myself included) praised trump for his establishment of proper protective tariffs. This isn't what is typically meant by neoliberal free markets. Moreover, I would like to see the government grow, just not in the way the Democratic party and many democrats do. Most republicans think like me.

Pet_Ant 4y ago
> Moreover, I would like to see the government grow, just not in the way the Democratic party and many democrats do. In which way are those? > Most republicans think like me. I don't want this to sound like a snarky "[Citation Needed]", and I believe you believe that, but how are you so certain that this is true and no just your local circle or your own projection? I mean Ted Nuggent just called Zelensky -a man with a wife- a gay man at a political rally. I don't see what you are saying reflected in the republicans I see.
- anon291 4y ago
  > In which way are those? Sure. Let's go over a few topics. Please don't argue with me about them. You asked for my beliefs, not a debate. 1. Police -- I believe we need more police and more jails. I don't at all understand the democratic concern over mass incarceration. If someone has committed a crime, they should be in jail. The concern I often get from white liberals (I'm not white) is that white people are not being punished for the same crimes non-whites are. That's a terrible thing if true, and I believe we should have more jails and police in that case. Police are a form of government. I would happily pay more taxes for more jails. In my city, people are routinely released due to no prison space, and in several instances have gone on to kill their victims (i.e., a domestic abuser now is a murderer; easily prevented had we kept them in jail). I actually would pay 100% of my income in taxes if it meant we actually kept people in jail. Law enforcement is a basic responsibility of the government. I am not against social programs to help economic development to attempt to deter people from criminality. However, releasing people from jail is not a meaningful way to lower prison stats. 2. Social Life -- I believe the government should be more involved in community and social life. I believe the government should institute programs to prevent divorce and encourage marriage and child-bearing. I would also like to see the government actively promote stay at home parents via the tax code. Marriage should be encouraged. Those taking care of elderly parents should receive heavy tax breaks. Tax brackets should be changed to be even more progressive for single income earners / married couples without kids. Social media for children should be banned. Pornography should be restricted to adults who can prove their age (exact same standard as strip clubs and night clubs.. it is ridiculous my local tiki bar has more regulations regarding minors entering it than pornhub). The War on Drugs should continue. Social media of particular community sizes should be highly regulated in what kinds of speech they can censor / what ways they can censor it (censorship should be opt-in, not imposed). 3. Economic development -- The government should take an active approach to managing American imports / exports, including taxation standards, preferences for buying American made goods, active punishment for companies choosing to do business with non-friendly states, like China and Russia. We should by and large adopt an America first mentality on economics and defense issues. 4. Immigration -- The federal government quite obviously needs more immigration enforcement, including physical barriers. I cannot honestly comprehend how people do not understand this. By and large our drug problem is caused by the Chinese communist party wishing to replay the Opium wars in reverse via the importation of cheap Chinese fentanyl via the Mexican border. This is a major national security concern. The government should immediately levy a tax of whatever amount necessary to construct a wall / fund border agencies. 5. Education -- The American education system needs to become more efficient. Useless educational programs subject to the whims of principals and administrators seeking their latest degrees need to be eliminated (my mother taught at an inner city school... I saw what happened there). Eliminate the 'right' of violent children to an education in the normal public school system. Eliminate government grants for majors not deemed in the national interest. Full scholarships for those studying subjects the country needs. I have never heard a democrat politician of any importance speak to these concerns. The democrats are ambivalent towards policing / (in my state at least) are attempting to lower the number of people in jail with disastrous affects / unwilling to criticize the more extreme ends of their party protesting on the streets and driving up the cost of policing. In terms of social life, it's an anything goes sort of policy. Economic development... well they've finally come around to it after years bashing Trump and other republicans (remember everyone making fun of Romney for saying Russia was the biggest national security threat... jokes on you!). On immigration, there is just denial. On education, sometimes they're into it, but mostly they just spend money on things that are useless. for example, my city is funding universal pre-school and day care, which is just dumb. Parents should be able to stay home with their children; this policy only further encourages the separation. Terrible. > I don't want this to sound like a snarky "[Citation Needed]", and I believe you believe that, but how are you so certain that this is true and no just your local circle or your own projection? I mean Ted Nuggent just called Zelensky -a man with a wife- a gay man at a political rally. I don't see what you are saying reflected in the republicans I see. I'm a republican; I've been a republican for many years. I know a lot of republicans (on the west coast at least). That's my source. I don't know who Ted Nugent is.

thenerdhead 4y ago

I think the author is trying to mix a eulogy and class based politics like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone But I fail to see the message from this article. He mentions many ways to potentially "save" his friend in the world of class based politics and not just being used as "pawns", but never talks about the regret of not being in constant contact with them over the 20+ years of corporate life and chain smoking since they parted ways.

Convolutional 4y ago

> The white working class used to be the focus of the American left, but the left abandoned us From World War I to the 1950s or 1960s, the idea that factory workers in Europe, or of European descent, might take over their countries, displacing the rich/capitalists/bourgeoisie, was an idea that was people took seriously, on all sides of the political spectrum. Not only would this class take over, but be the vanguard of the change. Does anyone think this is going to happen now? This article indicates an opinion on that question. A class of people taking power for themselves don't have to beg for pity from a coastal professional-managerial class. It would organize itself and take power.

cies 4y ago
There is no "left" in the US, not in mainstream politics anyway. The words needed to have a sensible political discussion are ill-defined and only add noise. I'm afraid it's beyond repair: we need a new vocab to discuss social issues, or we will never have the discussion at scale (and are doomed to live under capitalism until the collapse into autoritrianism).

monero-xmr 4y ago

It seems like he brushed aside a lot of stuff, and of course we didn’t get any of the other side of the story. He had his own condo which the author calls “bland”. That seems rather mean. It seems rather ungraceful to frame an entire man’s life and death around American politics and say for 50 years he was a miserable nothing. I would like to hear this man’s side of the story instead.

lapcat 4y ago

It's unclear what kind of political message we can take from this one person's life and death story. After all, the title says he died from loneliness, but I'm not aware of any political party that has a proposal to directly address this real issue. Of course there are various political policies that could have improved Mike's life in several ways, but whether they would have changed the ultimate outcome, who knows. "He had stopped trying to meet a woman by his late thirties." I'm not saying there weren't any economic aspects to that, but the author doesn't explain exactly how his partisan political analysis is relevant to that, how either party would have or could have helped. There's no obvious, conclusive logical inference from Democrats forgetting about the working class — which may be true! — to Mike's loneliness.

didgetmaster 4y ago
Plenty of partisans will look at a story like this and tell themselves 'if only my party (R or D) just had more power, this wouldn't happen'. Although government policies can definitely have an effect on the lives of all Americans; cases like this one cannot be solved by government programs. The people we surround ourselves with (family, friends, neighbors) have a far greater influence over our emotional and social well-being than some faceless bureaucracy in Washington D.C.
hattmall 4y ago
Democratic policies have consistently squeezed the working class into a perpetual grind. We are seeing that to an extreme level now with the current inflation. There is essentially no time for self actualization and the pursuit of happiness. If you can't break out of the working grind into being wealthy and you don't want to go into the bottom and become reliant on the government then you are increasingly fucked. The barrier to rising into wealth is ever increasing as well. Life expectancy is quickly falling to intersect the retirement age. The median household income is about half of what's needed to own the median home. The student loan crisis has many starting out in tremendous debt just to be able to work until they die!
- watwut 4y ago
  Mike was not exactly economically unsuccessful. He had a job, had no debt, had a condo. It was "in a faceless St. Louis suburb" per author taste, but there is no mention of Mike actually complaining about that. There is no mention of Mike saying anything or having opinion on anything, except brief interest in Holocaust and failing to find a job with the Texas Democratic Party. Mike is not example of squeezed working class. And even less example of being squeezed by democrats specifically.

labrador 4y ago

Since 2000, white working-class Americans between the ages of 45 and 54 have been one of the only demographics in the world that has seen its life expectancy fall. These deaths are mostly suicides. Some are officially blamed on alcoholism and addiction, but that’s just suicide in slow motion. As an recovered addict/alcoholic I've heard every sad story in the book. If you find yourself similarly trapped in the personal drama of substance use disorder, know that in your neighborhood there is likely a 12 step meeting with free coffee and cookies where people will greet you and even get you to have a laugh at your common predicament. As my buddy Jimmy B used to tell me "you're a special case of the same old thing". Don't listen to the do gooders who feel sorry for you because that sh*t is deadly.

kar5pt 4y ago
12 steps work great for a lot of people, but we need to be careful not to push the narrative that it's a cure-all for addiction. 12 steppers often act like it is and blame the addict for not trying hard enough if the 12 steps don't work for them. The latest research shows that at best it works for 1/3 of addicts/alcoholics. This makes sense since mental illness is complicated and we wouldn't expect a single treatment to work for everybody. What we really need is better research to develop treatment methods that don't require people to essentially join a new religion and devote 5-10 hours of volunteer participation for the rest of their lives (I think it's understandable that not everyone wants to adopt this lifestyle). I fear that the "12 steps for everybody" model of addiction treatment gets in the way of that.

bioemerl 4y ago

Man. I get that it's a sad story, but I got a few paragraphs into this and the "heartstrings pulling" the article was doing made me stop reading. It feels like it's trying to make me sad and empathetic, and that makes me feel it's manipulative.

Balgair 4y ago
Meta comment: TheFP is kinda like that. Weiss et al. are still finding their voice and trying to turn the substack into something more. It's not going well. Honestly, it's kinda the same libertarianism over and over again. Weird unpasteurized milk articles, complaining about college undergrads and admins, purported insider views of Washington from obvious outsiders, complaints about getting into the Ivy leagues, etc. Like most libertarian stuff, it's people stuck in their 20s realizing that their life isn't going to plan. Like, 'this year I'm going to learn Spanish/practice piano/be more intentional' Great, sure, have fun, I really do mean that. Everyone with kids and a mortgage and responsibilities has moved on from these, I dunno, frivolous/childish/trying-to-create-meaning things (not good with English today, sorry!). TheFP is kinda stuck in that zeitgeist.
- watwut 4y ago
  > Like, 'this year I'm going to learn Spanish/practice piano/be more intentional' Great, sure, have fun, I really do mean that. Everyone with kids and a mortgage and responsibilities has moved on from these, I dunno They come back to it as kids get older and don't need that much of your time. If feels unbelievable and impossible at first, but slowly it comes back and you start learning things and finding hobbies again. None of the things you mentioned is childish either. Especially nit learning foreign languages. That is like ... super adult thing.

throwawaysalome 4y ago

Sounds like he died from sepsis. The Republicans need to do something about that.

irrational 4y ago

I’m not sure why political parties would be expected to fix these things (which seemed to be the authors thesis). How would government fix loneliness, lack of spouse, lack of grit, failed marriages, domestic abuse, teenage rebellion, bullying, chain smoking, alcoholism, and all the things ailing the white middle class (men?) according to the author?

readthenotes1 4y ago
"How would government fix loneliness, lack of spouse, lack of grit, failed marriages, domestic abuse, teenage rebellion, bullying, chain smoking, alcoholism, and all the things ailing the white middle class (men?) according to the author? " George Orwell had an answer to that.
- nozzlegear 4y ago
  It's been a long time since I've read any Orwell, and maybe I've not had enough coffee this morning to make the connection on my own. Could you tell us what Orwell's answer would be?
  - readthenotes1 4y ago
    1984, the government told you what to think and feel and say. Perfect Nanny state...
michaelt 4y ago
It depends how powerful and effective you think government interventions can be; and what level of government intervention is moral. Could the government reverse the export of manufacturing jobs to the far east? If you believe they can, you might think that would improve the lot of the working class. Or is that beyond the power of the state? Could the government rebrand pink collar jobs like nursing, where demand is rising due to our ageing population, to be more gender-neutral and higher status? Or is that beyond the power of the state? Are there social organisations like sports clubs which the government could make easier to set up and operate? Or has the state already done all it can in that area? Should the government be providing venues like town halls, sports facilities and libraries in every town? Or is that better left to the private sector anyway? How far should the government go in regulating tobacco and alcohol? America has gone as far as prohibition in the past. Or should adults have as few limits on freedom of choice as possible? The government is more than happy to support films that glorify the American military. And other countries have far more heavy-handed media controls. Given the government is willing to support films and TV that advance certain values, why not advance pro-having-grit and anti-domestic-abuse messages as well as pro-military messages? What about getting more people into church? I'm not religious myself, but I know it's important to a lot of people and loads of people get married in churches. But some would say the separation of church and state is more important than other concerns. Some people think the mighty and powerful state could deliver all those things, given the will to do so. Others would expect a lot less.

javier123454321 4y ago

Agreed that the endless drive for career in the US makes me feel lonelier than anywhere else I've lived. But, calling friends and acquaintances, having them over, and normalizing hanging out seems to ease that a bit. Maybe people should try that and not make a huge deal out of getting together in people's houses. That's completely normal in latin america.

watwut 4y ago

I find multiple claims in that article dubious. And I do not even think it is accurate in describing what democrats believed or done. It is not clear what loneliness has to do with the rest of the article. It is not clear why author claims the Mike died of loneliness. And all in all, it sounds like standard conservativism. Stringing things together, just so you can imply blame the other side without actually saying anything. Pretend that Clintons comment was about white working class specifically when that is simply a lie. Mike does not seem to be particularly unsuccessful person. I do not know what him being single or him not liking his standard corporate job has to do with democrats. Mike was not an unsuccessful unemployed person with no prospects - he was not too happy in his job and did not succeeded in politics. Mike came from parents that failed him massively at multiple points. Later on failed to connect with people, could not forging friendships or family. Short of psychotherapy paid from insurance, nothing in politics can fix this. More protection for kids might prevent future Mikes. This was not caused by feminism nor by anti-racist movements later in his life. Plus as I told, some dubious claims. > That so many of us who made it to campus never learned the cues, lingos, tastes, and mannerisms of the upper classes, which are, in a way, more important than the degree. That was the subtext of J.D. Vance’s Hillbilly Elegy. Was this an actual subtext of that book? Because imo it was not. Actual subtext was that poor whites deserve to be poor, because they make bad choices. J.D. Vance’s policies later on were to remove parts of social system. > Since 2000, white working-class Americans between the ages of 45 and 54 have been one of the only demographics in the world that has seen its life expectancy fall. These deaths are mostly suicides. Is this an actual true? Is this an actual true in 2023 right after epidemic, right after finding out that child mortality is going up, right after births became more dangerous?

johnea 4y ago

[flagged]

sacnoradhq 4y ago

America has 2 core problems leading to intense despair: low wages and lack of community. Substance abuse, screen addiction, depression and suicide, relationshiplessness, friendlessness, childlessness, populist fascism, and mass shootings are all signals pointing to a rotten core that doesn't meet basic human needs: connection and affording necessities. Growing up, my grandparents knew most of their neighbors on the block and had them over frequently. I rarely see that anymore as most people treat neighbors and strangers with automatic suspicion if not hostility or contempt. This is a terrible cultural attitude that leads to suffering and loneliness. Interestingly, I hear community is still a thing in a number of non-G20 countries. If anyone wants a nicer country, individuals need to take pro-social chances to encourage real talk about their struggles and good vibes with those around them, starting at home and anyone they meet. Community doesn't cost money, it costs time and emotional reserves. Paying Americans fair wages and not overworking them is the result of unregulated laissez-faire capitalism that balks at any and all suggestions of reform as "communism". Except for China, almost no one else works on a constant crash schedule.