4 ms·

Explain that to anyone living under a dictatorship their grandparents originally supported.

Jensson 4y ago
The dictator has to beat down the rebellions every time, but the rebels only has to win once. Is that what you meant? As long as there are people there will be struggles like this. Being on the winners side makes things easier, so losing once makes it harder to go back, but it isn't impossible since we have gotten here from much worse situations.
- cryptonector 4y ago
  GP means that the dictator only needs to win without violence once, but the rebels -while it's true that they only need to win once- may have to resort to violence because the dictator certainly will resort to violence to crush its opposition.
  - Jensson 4y ago
    In the case of EU the member states would just leave if the union starts becoming too corrupt. Until they create a no-leave rule there isn't much to worry about. When they create a no-leave rule then we should start worry, since then EU is heading towards becoming USA.
    - FredPret 4y ago
      So edgy
      - Jensson 4y ago
        That doesn't mean I'm wrong.
    - revelio 4y ago
      Ah yes because we saw how easy it is to leave the EU for the UK even though it still has its own currency. Realistically current EU countries are locked in. They aren't allowed to reintroduce their own currency, but doing so is step one towards leaving.
      - gpderetta 4y ago
        Of course it is not easy, but if it feasible for questionable reasons as in the UK case, certainly it will be more feasible in case of existential threats.
        revelio 4y ago
        That's not how it works, at all. History should make this clear! By the time a regime reaches "existential threat" level it's too late. You're already far gone, any and all political opposition has been driven underground and the regime has loyalists in place in all institutions and positions of power. There is no way to organize any resistance because attempts to do so are crushed immediately, the press is controlled and you're in the minority anyway because the majority are propagandized and kept in fear of instability or supposed external threats to their way of life. The EU is frankly far too close to that dystopian end already. It constantly justifies its own power via reference to external enemies of various kinds e.g. capitalist America, the European press barely challenges it and the institutions are controlled by EU loyalists who are willing to rip up the rules rather than let the EU lose control. Even in the UK that was always more distant than other nations, they went through multiple severe constitutional crises triggered by Remainers fighting to overturn the referendum. It wasn't at all clear that the UK could actually leave despite the referendum result not being in doubt. IMO the very fact that you think the UK left for "questionable reasons" is already part of the propaganda doing its job. The people who get out early are the only ones who actually can get out. By the time the case is unambiguous (to you), you're the one being labelled as questionable.
        gpderetta 4y ago
        Mate, if you think the propaganda is only on one side, I don't know what to tell you.
    - noduerme 4y ago
      No offense, but it's extremely myopic to think that any EU state would protest over privacy rights when so many more economically and geopolitically important considerations exist. And yet this is still how fascism and totalitarianism advances. No one will be left out now, because all EU states are too weak alone without Germany. It's funny that the results of WWII were for America to enable a soft version of the fourth Reich and the Japanese east asian coprosperity sphere. BUT we built it under our auspices, with the rule being that free speech was somewhat necessary for a free market. (skip the part about torturing Muslims and communists). Here we are. Will Europe now become Hungary or Turkey??!
- noduerme 4y ago
  > The dictator has to beat down the rebellions every time, but the rebels only has to win once. Yes... this was the original comment I was responding to, which seems to have totally disappeared. Thanks. > we have gotten here from much worse situations. A wise remark. But we'll only keep finding better situations if we keep calling out bullshit.

The dictator has to beat down the rebellions every time, but the rebels only has to win once. Is that what you meant? As long as there are people there will be struggles like this. Being on the winners side makes things easier, so losing once makes it harder to go back, but it isn't impossible since we have gotten here from much worse situations.

cryptonector 4y ago
GP means that the dictator only needs to win without violence once, but the rebels -while it's true that they only need to win once- may have to resort to violence because the dictator certainly will resort to violence to crush its opposition.
- Jensson 4y ago
  In the case of EU the member states would just leave if the union starts becoming too corrupt. Until they create a no-leave rule there isn't much to worry about. When they create a no-leave rule then we should start worry, since then EU is heading towards becoming USA.
  - FredPret 4y ago
    So edgy
    - Jensson 4y ago
      That doesn't mean I'm wrong.
  - revelio 4y ago
    Ah yes because we saw how easy it is to leave the EU for the UK even though it still has its own currency. Realistically current EU countries are locked in. They aren't allowed to reintroduce their own currency, but doing so is step one towards leaving.
    - gpderetta 4y ago
      Of course it is not easy, but if it feasible for questionable reasons as in the UK case, certainly it will be more feasible in case of existential threats.
      - revelio 4y ago
        That's not how it works, at all. History should make this clear! By the time a regime reaches "existential threat" level it's too late. You're already far gone, any and all political opposition has been driven underground and the regime has loyalists in place in all institutions and positions of power. There is no way to organize any resistance because attempts to do so are crushed immediately, the press is controlled and you're in the minority anyway because the majority are propagandized and kept in fear of instability or supposed external threats to their way of life. The EU is frankly far too close to that dystopian end already. It constantly justifies its own power via reference to external enemies of various kinds e.g. capitalist America, the European press barely challenges it and the institutions are controlled by EU loyalists who are willing to rip up the rules rather than let the EU lose control. Even in the UK that was always more distant than other nations, they went through multiple severe constitutional crises triggered by Remainers fighting to overturn the referendum. It wasn't at all clear that the UK could actually leave despite the referendum result not being in doubt. IMO the very fact that you think the UK left for "questionable reasons" is already part of the propaganda doing its job. The people who get out early are the only ones who actually can get out. By the time the case is unambiguous (to you), you're the one being labelled as questionable.
        gpderetta 4y ago
        Mate, if you think the propaganda is only on one side, I don't know what to tell you.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    No offense, but it's extremely myopic to think that any EU state would protest over privacy rights when so many more economically and geopolitically important considerations exist. And yet this is still how fascism and totalitarianism advances. No one will be left out now, because all EU states are too weak alone without Germany. It's funny that the results of WWII were for America to enable a soft version of the fourth Reich and the Japanese east asian coprosperity sphere. BUT we built it under our auspices, with the rule being that free speech was somewhat necessary for a free market. (skip the part about torturing Muslims and communists). Here we are. Will Europe now become Hungary or Turkey??!
noduerme 4y ago
> The dictator has to beat down the rebellions every time, but the rebels only has to win once. Yes... this was the original comment I was responding to, which seems to have totally disappeared. Thanks. > we have gotten here from much worse situations. A wise remark. But we'll only keep finding better situations if we keep calling out bullshit.