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Why Chinese Apps Are the Favorites of Young Americans

8 points by kjhughes 4y ago

senttoschool 4y ago
Having lived in China for a few years, what many in the West don't understand is that large parts of the Chinese tech ecosystem have moved away from copying the West. They're extremely competitive and innovative. If one innovation springs up in the local market, there will be many clones. The ultimate competitor wins in the end. The last standing competitor is usually good enough to compete with anyone in the world. Unlike the US, where getting students to take STEM majors is like pulling teeth, there are plenty of STEM graduates in China. So much so that the supply of software engineers, for example, is huge and their salaries are depressed. This in turn, allows companies to compete without having to invest a large sum of money like you need to in Silicon Valley. And because these tech companies can compete with anyone in the world, the West (especially the US) is starting to get nervous that China is moving up the value chain fast. They're no longer just cheap labor. In turn, politicians and the media are using every tactic possible to slow China's economy down. For example, the US has renewed interest in allying with Taiwan because the US does not want China to get access to TSMC chips. For a free market, capitalist country, the US sure does not want competition. On Hacker News, and the general internet, it's very common to see "but they just steal" comments. Perhaps it's true in the past. Today, it's far less true because China leads in quite a few areas on advanced tech and they now produce more original research than the US. If I could have one thing, it's for the HN community to not naively view the US vs China conflict as good (US) vs evil (China). Rather, I'd like to see this community move beyond that sort of propaganda and see the conflict as simply economics.
- nhgiang 4y ago
  Could you show some examples of areas where China is leading?
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/02/china-leading-us-in-technology-race-in-all-but-a-few-fields-thinktank-finds https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/02/china-leading-... EV battery is one.
- verdverm 4y ago
  The conflict is not simply economics, it's ideological for both and existential for communists
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    How many times do you need to be told that China is only "communist" in name? It's a capitalist country. Even more so than the US recently.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - verdverm 4y ago
      Capitalism is a form of economic organization, Communism is a belief system which has opinions about how an economy should be organized. CCP is still a communist party while allowing for a mixed economic system. They are in the process of reigning in the westernization that leaked through. The key is that Communism requires a monopoly on politics. If people are given the choice, they prefer democracy and the right to choose their leaders. Stephen Kotkin is very good at explaining these things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10wiKL-wyOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10wiKL-wyOE
Mizoguchi 4y ago
I think the secret sauce of Temu and Shien are the prices and delivery which has nothing to do with the app itself,just like AliExpress, you find super cheap stuff with Walmart quality at best. For a broken teen obviously it would be appealing. But going as far as comparing a Chinese drop shipping e-commerce platform with an app as a front end to Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, WhatsApp, etc in the context of technical innovation and "embroidery" is just plain ridiculous.
- WiSaGaN 4y ago
  If you look at Didi or Meituan in ride-sharing apps, they are miles ahead to Uber in terms of usability and features, at least to 1.4 billion Chinese. This is not a rare event. Apps like Futubul that just feel much better than Robinhood. I am not event talking about Wechat.
  - Mizoguchi 4y ago
    I bet they are great. I feel the same about Rappi compared to Uber Eats of Grubhub in South America after spending a few months there. They are trying to break into the US now I believe, but honestly I don't think Americans will care even when it's a much better app overall. It's hard to make people change once they are invested in one platform, unless you are offering them much better value for money or something completely new and revolutionary like TikTok, but just a better UX won't do it. We will see.
stathibus 4y ago
China is now more capable than silicon valley, the rest of the world just hasn't caught up yet.
amrb 4y ago
You can't operate in china without tea money for the official's, the allowed players are big like Tencent and Ali-B.. maybe China and the US are the same beast, if not for the organ harvesting, air pollution and reeducation camps..

8 points by kjhughes 4y ago

Having lived in China for a few years, what many in the West don't understand is that large parts of the Chinese tech ecosystem have moved away from copying the West. They're extremely competitive and innovative. If one innovation springs up in the local market, there will be many clones. The ultimate competitor wins in the end. The last standing competitor is usually good enough to compete with anyone in the world. Unlike the US, where getting students to take STEM majors is like pulling teeth, there are plenty of STEM graduates in China. So much so that the supply of software engineers, for example, is huge and their salaries are depressed. This in turn, allows companies to compete without having to invest a large sum of money like you need to in Silicon Valley. And because these tech companies can compete with anyone in the world, the West (especially the US) is starting to get nervous that China is moving up the value chain fast. They're no longer just cheap labor. In turn, politicians and the media are using every tactic possible to slow China's economy down. For example, the US has renewed interest in allying with Taiwan because the US does not want China to get access to TSMC chips. For a free market, capitalist country, the US sure does not want competition. On Hacker News, and the general internet, it's very common to see "but they just steal" comments. Perhaps it's true in the past. Today, it's far less true because China leads in quite a few areas on advanced tech and they now produce more original research than the US. If I could have one thing, it's for the HN community to not naively view the US vs China conflict as good (US) vs evil (China). Rather, I'd like to see this community move beyond that sort of propaganda and see the conflict as simply economics.

nhgiang 4y ago
Could you show some examples of areas where China is leading?
- senttoschool 4y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/02/china-leading-us-in-technology-race-in-all-but-a-few-fields-thinktank-finds https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/02/china-leading-... EV battery is one.
verdverm 4y ago
The conflict is not simply economics, it's ideological for both and existential for communists
- senttoschool 4y ago
  How many times do you need to be told that China is only "communist" in name? It's a capitalist country. Even more so than the US recently.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - verdverm 4y ago
    Capitalism is a form of economic organization, Communism is a belief system which has opinions about how an economy should be organized. CCP is still a communist party while allowing for a mixed economic system. They are in the process of reigning in the westernization that leaked through. The key is that Communism requires a monopoly on politics. If people are given the choice, they prefer democracy and the right to choose their leaders. Stephen Kotkin is very good at explaining these things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10wiKL-wyOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10wiKL-wyOE

Mizoguchi 4y ago

I think the secret sauce of Temu and Shien are the prices and delivery which has nothing to do with the app itself,just like AliExpress, you find super cheap stuff with Walmart quality at best. For a broken teen obviously it would be appealing. But going as far as comparing a Chinese drop shipping e-commerce platform with an app as a front end to Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, WhatsApp, etc in the context of technical innovation and "embroidery" is just plain ridiculous.

WiSaGaN 4y ago
If you look at Didi or Meituan in ride-sharing apps, they are miles ahead to Uber in terms of usability and features, at least to 1.4 billion Chinese. This is not a rare event. Apps like Futubul that just feel much better than Robinhood. I am not event talking about Wechat.
- Mizoguchi 4y ago
  I bet they are great. I feel the same about Rappi compared to Uber Eats of Grubhub in South America after spending a few months there. They are trying to break into the US now I believe, but honestly I don't think Americans will care even when it's a much better app overall. It's hard to make people change once they are invested in one platform, unless you are offering them much better value for money or something completely new and revolutionary like TikTok, but just a better UX won't do it. We will see.

stathibus 4y ago

China is now more capable than silicon valley, the rest of the world just hasn't caught up yet.

amrb 4y ago

You can't operate in china without tea money for the official's, the allowed players are big like Tencent and Ali-B.. maybe China and the US are the same beast, if not for the organ harvesting, air pollution and reeducation camps..