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Deliver but deliver what? What does value mean? Unless you can ask for precisely what you want (none 1 can in 1 go even if they think so) then if you don't ask

by re-thc 4y ago

Deliver but deliver what? What does value mean? Unless you can ask for precisely what you want (none 1 can in 1 go even if they think so) then if you don't ask how do you deliver? What's the point of providing an estimate that's useless? If you talk about focusing on value then estimates provide no value to that value. All they do is serve a reporting purpose - not delivering in any way to make money so you've just contradicted yourself. So let me ask what value are you asking for? Do you want a website? Well ok you'll get a blank page that says "WEBSITE". Clearly that's not what you want so how do people estimate nothing? Even the owner likely doesn't know what they want. You may feel like it. As others said you'll just lose value because if I come up with x/y/z that DO add value I'm no longer going to mention it because it's outside of estimates and clearly not valued. If I see anything that's wrong with what we're trying to deliver again I'm not going to mention it because it doesn't add value!?

gabereiser 4y ago
Here’s a concrete example. A customer of mine wants to process some data, this processing of data is needed for their fizzbuzz widget they are developing and they need the data before they launch the widget. They want to know how long it will take, at what cost, because I’m bidding against others who also want to do the job. In order for me to continue to operate as a business (and pay staff), I need to sell, in order to sell, I need to give an estimate to the client on how much effort it will be so that they can plan accordingly or select a different vendor. This is an engineering task. Estimate the steps and time it will take. Deliver it. Plain and simple. You don’t know what the data looks like so it’s going to be new. You don’t have a framework. You have some semblance of a schema but it’s written by business folks.
- re-thc 4y ago
  Like all the other commenters have said you're not really asking for an "estimate". A fixed cost project does NOT have estimates. Estimate occur when you do time and materials i.e. you get charged per hour and it can always get extended. There's competition and you roughly know where the bid will land (assuming you're already experienced) and likely talking to each other. Instead of giving a real estimate anyone knows you pad any real estimate 3x and then drag it out if you're under time. I once tried to give a real estimate, finish it under time and got told for it because then we can't bill the client (time based). Again, no it's not an estimate. It's called I have $x and y time and want to do <z>, how many corners can I cut whilst the client won't notice?

by re-thc 4y ago

gabereiser 4y ago

Here’s a concrete example. A customer of mine wants to process some data, this processing of data is needed for their fizzbuzz widget they are developing and they need the data before they launch the widget. They want to know how long it will take, at what cost, because I’m bidding against others who also want to do the job. In order for me to continue to operate as a business (and pay staff), I need to sell, in order to sell, I need to give an estimate to the client on how much effort it will be so that they can plan accordingly or select a different vendor. This is an engineering task. Estimate the steps and time it will take. Deliver it. Plain and simple. You don’t know what the data looks like so it’s going to be new. You don’t have a framework. You have some semblance of a schema but it’s written by business folks.

re-thc 4y ago
Like all the other commenters have said you're not really asking for an "estimate". A fixed cost project does NOT have estimates. Estimate occur when you do time and materials i.e. you get charged per hour and it can always get extended. There's competition and you roughly know where the bid will land (assuming you're already experienced) and likely talking to each other. Instead of giving a real estimate anyone knows you pad any real estimate 3x and then drag it out if you're under time. I once tried to give a real estimate, finish it under time and got told for it because then we can't bill the client (time based). Again, no it's not an estimate. It's called I have $x and y time and want to do <z>, how many corners can I cut whilst the client won't notice?