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I don't respect people's decisions if it may affect others. The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they wer

I don't respect people's decisions if it may affect others. The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they were vaccinated is one. Health care costs are amortized over the population through insurance

VagueMag 4y ago
> The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they were vaccinated is one. Health care costs are amortized over the population through insurance This is a recipe for the worst, most intrusive kind of tyranny in the name of "biosecurity," but that's probably a feature and not a bug to the sort of person who is still advocating for COVID vaccine mandates at this late date. There are vast demographics of healthy young people at infinitesimal risk from COVID and much higher risk from the shots, for whom taking them actually raised their risk of being hospitalized. But the difference between you and me is, if I found out people required more medical care because of their unwise and ill-considered health choices, the last thing on earth that would occur to me would be to punish them with job losses, higher insurance premiums, and the like.
blueyoda 4y ago
78% of individuals hospitalized for COVID were obese/overweight. In other words, people who eat too much were primarily responsible for overwhelming our health care system. What are your thoughts on them?
- themitigating 4y ago
  - Gaining weight takes time and is the result of a continuous large number of bad decisions over a long period of time. Not getting vaccinated is a single decision - Losing weight requires a great deal of effort over a long period of time. Getting vaccinated is quick and easy - Weight gain can have factors that are difficult to control like mental illness, self control issues, and other things related to your emotions. I'm sure you'll agree that the vast majority of people who are overweight don't want to be overweight. Those who didn't get vaccinated wanted to not be vaccinated While you can argue anyone can lose weight, which I would agree with you, the amount of effort is extreme, otherwise I'm sure no one would be overweight. Therefore a person who is overweight has a heart attack deserves sympathy whereas a person who didn't get vaccinated* but ends up in the hospital because of Covid doesn't. * Assuming they could have gotten vaccinated, meaning no health issues or real risks
  - blueyoda 4y ago
    > Therefore a person who is overweight has a heart attack deserves sympathy whereas a person who didn't get vaccinated* but ends up in the hospital because of Covid doesn't. A person who is obese willingly chose to gorge on lots of food. (Of course, there are a minority of individuals who have conditions like thyroid issues). A person who declined vaccination was most likely afraid of the side effects, which are rare but possible. > Weight gain can have factors that are difficult to control like mental illness, self control issues Mental illness? So a schizophrenic person magically gets obese? Self-control issues? People who can't put the cookie down? And a young athlete has to undergo a procedure with risk because the obese person can't say no to Taco Bell? These people were responsible for 78% of hospitalizations. Yet the media had basically no campaign to encourage them to lose weight. Note that they have had a significant impact on our health care system before COVID even began. By your logic: "I can't stop overeating" => "It's not your fault" "I'm concerned about myocarditis" => "You're selfish!" Even though I find their decision to be extremely selfish, I still hold sympathy for them. Only a sadist would find joy in seeing others suffer. Imagine if doctors laughed at their patients for having a preventable illness. Likewise, I know there are people who refused to get vaccination for poor reasons - reasons that appear to be due to mental illness (e.g. schizophrenics who actually believe there are microchips in the vaccines). > the amount of effort is extreme And the amount of effort to become obese is extreme. No one becomes obese after one cookie. > Those who didn't get vaccinated wanted to not be vaccinated Did the obese make the responsible decision (to lose weight) to stop overwhelming our healthcare system?
    - blueyoda 4y ago
      (Quick edit: when I say "I find their decision to be extremely selfish", I'm referring to the obese) Also, I wanted to thank you for engaging with me in this discussion. While we have different opinions, I enjoy learning about other viewpoints and becoming more informed about them :)
    - themitigating 4y ago
      "By your logic: "I can't stop overeating" => "It's not your fault" "I'm concerned about myocarditis" => "You're selfish" I didn't say this and you ignored my entire premise about the difficulty of the situation. Both an obsese person and a unvaccinated person are to blame(unless we want to talk about misinformation). The difference is the mitigating factors . Getting vaccinated is easy but so is gaining weight. Losing weight is hard. ------------------ "Yet the media had basically no campaign to encourage them to lose weight. " There are massive campaigns by the government encouraging people to become more fit. Remember the presidents physical fitness challange? ( I'm assuming you are US). Encouraging a health lifestyle through physical activity happens all the time. Also the obesity issue in America is reported on all the time. Also the "media" isn't an organization it reports the news and they reported that government official wanted people to get vaccinated. I don't understand how you look at them, like some sort of government. ------------------ - fear about side effects The vast majority of experts said it's safe and the chances of side effects are extremely low. Lower than the probability of getting covid. It doesn't make sense to be afraid of side effects but not the disease. ---------------- "Mental illness? So a schizophrenic person magically gets obese? Self-control issues? People who can't put the cookie down? " I saw your comment about how you are happy about this engagement which makes me think you are a reasonable person however the comment above is the opposite of that. The mental illnesses I'm thinking of is depression and anxiety disorders. People don't magically become obsese, as you said, and if it was as easy as "put the cookie down" almost no one would be fat. There's also been studies showing that sugar is similar to an addictive substance. Finally have some empathy for people in a difficult situation that has a difficult solution. Getting vaccinated is easy that is unless you don't want to look stupid after you took a absolute stance. My original comment was about the cost of all these people going threw the medicial system. I take it your arguement and annoyance with this is that I'm selective right? Something like "what if someone is skiing and breaks a leg. That was an optional activity so shouldn't I be angry?" Not to argue with myself but skiing is entertainment which has value, people don't intend to break a leg, and i hope often take precautions. If there was a situation that a person put themselves in intentionally increasing the risk of an event that then requires huge amount of medical care I would say the same thing.

VagueMag 4y ago

> The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they were vaccinated is one. Health care costs are amortized over the population through insurance This is a recipe for the worst, most intrusive kind of tyranny in the name of "biosecurity," but that's probably a feature and not a bug to the sort of person who is still advocating for COVID vaccine mandates at this late date. There are vast demographics of healthy young people at infinitesimal risk from COVID and much higher risk from the shots, for whom taking them actually raised their risk of being hospitalized. But the difference between you and me is, if I found out people required more medical care because of their unwise and ill-considered health choices, the last thing on earth that would occur to me would be to punish them with job losses, higher insurance premiums, and the like.

blueyoda 4y ago

78% of individuals hospitalized for COVID were obese/overweight. In other words, people who eat too much were primarily responsible for overwhelming our health care system. What are your thoughts on them?

themitigating 4y ago
- Gaining weight takes time and is the result of a continuous large number of bad decisions over a long period of time. Not getting vaccinated is a single decision - Losing weight requires a great deal of effort over a long period of time. Getting vaccinated is quick and easy - Weight gain can have factors that are difficult to control like mental illness, self control issues, and other things related to your emotions. I'm sure you'll agree that the vast majority of people who are overweight don't want to be overweight. Those who didn't get vaccinated wanted to not be vaccinated While you can argue anyone can lose weight, which I would agree with you, the amount of effort is extreme, otherwise I'm sure no one would be overweight. Therefore a person who is overweight has a heart attack deserves sympathy whereas a person who didn't get vaccinated* but ends up in the hospital because of Covid doesn't. * Assuming they could have gotten vaccinated, meaning no health issues or real risks
- blueyoda 4y ago
  > Therefore a person who is overweight has a heart attack deserves sympathy whereas a person who didn't get vaccinated* but ends up in the hospital because of Covid doesn't. A person who is obese willingly chose to gorge on lots of food. (Of course, there are a minority of individuals who have conditions like thyroid issues). A person who declined vaccination was most likely afraid of the side effects, which are rare but possible. > Weight gain can have factors that are difficult to control like mental illness, self control issues Mental illness? So a schizophrenic person magically gets obese? Self-control issues? People who can't put the cookie down? And a young athlete has to undergo a procedure with risk because the obese person can't say no to Taco Bell? These people were responsible for 78% of hospitalizations. Yet the media had basically no campaign to encourage them to lose weight. Note that they have had a significant impact on our health care system before COVID even began. By your logic: "I can't stop overeating" => "It's not your fault" "I'm concerned about myocarditis" => "You're selfish!" Even though I find their decision to be extremely selfish, I still hold sympathy for them. Only a sadist would find joy in seeing others suffer. Imagine if doctors laughed at their patients for having a preventable illness. Likewise, I know there are people who refused to get vaccination for poor reasons - reasons that appear to be due to mental illness (e.g. schizophrenics who actually believe there are microchips in the vaccines). > the amount of effort is extreme And the amount of effort to become obese is extreme. No one becomes obese after one cookie. > Those who didn't get vaccinated wanted to not be vaccinated Did the obese make the responsible decision (to lose weight) to stop overwhelming our healthcare system?
  - blueyoda 4y ago
    (Quick edit: when I say "I find their decision to be extremely selfish", I'm referring to the obese) Also, I wanted to thank you for engaging with me in this discussion. While we have different opinions, I enjoy learning about other viewpoints and becoming more informed about them :)
  - themitigating 4y ago
    "By your logic: "I can't stop overeating" => "It's not your fault" "I'm concerned about myocarditis" => "You're selfish" I didn't say this and you ignored my entire premise about the difficulty of the situation. Both an obsese person and a unvaccinated person are to blame(unless we want to talk about misinformation). The difference is the mitigating factors . Getting vaccinated is easy but so is gaining weight. Losing weight is hard. ------------------ "Yet the media had basically no campaign to encourage them to lose weight. " There are massive campaigns by the government encouraging people to become more fit. Remember the presidents physical fitness challange? ( I'm assuming you are US). Encouraging a health lifestyle through physical activity happens all the time. Also the obesity issue in America is reported on all the time. Also the "media" isn't an organization it reports the news and they reported that government official wanted people to get vaccinated. I don't understand how you look at them, like some sort of government. ------------------ - fear about side effects The vast majority of experts said it's safe and the chances of side effects are extremely low. Lower than the probability of getting covid. It doesn't make sense to be afraid of side effects but not the disease. ---------------- "Mental illness? So a schizophrenic person magically gets obese? Self-control issues? People who can't put the cookie down? " I saw your comment about how you are happy about this engagement which makes me think you are a reasonable person however the comment above is the opposite of that. The mental illnesses I'm thinking of is depression and anxiety disorders. People don't magically become obsese, as you said, and if it was as easy as "put the cookie down" almost no one would be fat. There's also been studies showing that sugar is similar to an addictive substance. Finally have some empathy for people in a difficult situation that has a difficult solution. Getting vaccinated is easy that is unless you don't want to look stupid after you took a absolute stance. My original comment was about the cost of all these people going threw the medicial system. I take it your arguement and annoyance with this is that I'm selective right? Something like "what if someone is skiing and breaks a leg. That was an optional activity so shouldn't I be angry?" Not to argue with myself but skiing is entertainment which has value, people don't intend to break a leg, and i hope often take precautions. If there was a situation that a person put themselves in intentionally increasing the risk of an event that then requires huge amount of medical care I would say the same thing.