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FAANG salaries are not over middle class and this kind of rhetoric is used to fuel class warfare by businesses and companies among the poor and middle classes.

FAANG salaries are not over middle class and this kind of rhetoric is used to fuel class warfare by businesses and companies among the poor and middle classes. The fact is that in the modern day even on a FAANG salary a lot of people cannot afford to buy a home of their own. And the salary band at those companies is incredibly wide, owing in fact due to the wide disconnect in salary between engineers, middle management and the c-suite.

VirusNewbie 4y ago
What are you talking about? Maybe for entry level with only a couple years they couldn’t own a home but come on? You think there are mid/senior level people with 5+ years working there who cannot afford a home??
- photonbeam 4y ago
  Yes there are, as the homes they want to buy are near work and those are really expensive
jghn 4y ago
The median *household* income in the US is around 80K. That's well below the *starting* income for a FAANG engineer.
- triceratops 4y ago
  That's the point GP is making. FAANG salaries aren't too high, median salaries are too low.
  - fzeroracer 4y ago
    Yes, thank you. That's the exact point I've been getting at. Median salaries for workers in the US is far too low and should be brought up, rather than fighting to bring FAANG engineers lower which is exactly what businesses want.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      >Median salaries for workers in the US is far too low and should be brought up But how do we do this?
    - jghn 4y ago
      I agree with this, but that's a separate argument. I suppose if one viewed "middle class" as a state of being and not as in middle/median, then sure.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  I think the point they're making is that salaries should be higher, given the discrepancy between productivity and pay that started appearing in the 70s [0]. [0] https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/
fbdab103 4y ago
Uhhhh, if I go to levels right now, the Google Entry Level L3 total comp is $190k[0]. The US median household income in 2021 was ~$71k [1]. Where do you think the middle class line lands? [0] : https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-engineer https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-en... [1] : https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2022/demo/p60-276.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2022/demo/p60-27...
- fzeroracer 4y ago
  Above what even your average senior engineer is making. I'm not a FAANG worker; I make well below what they make. I simply do not ascribe to the crab-in-a-pot mentality that a lot of posters here seem to have in attempt to further divide what is ultimately a large range of middle class workers. Total compensation also only matters depending on the total CoL because a lot of those companies require you to live in areas with incredibly high rent, especially with the attempt to remove remote work. And even with FAANG the salary between an engineer at Amazon and one at Google is going to vastly differ, especially depending on what part of Amazon you're working at. For reference, Pew Research defines middle class as 1.66 - 2x the median salary in America. That would make most tech workers middle class, and FAANG engineers in the lower upper class. In places like San Francisco where the cost of living is significantly higher, you would need to be earning ~230k a year to be in the upper middle class [1]. Though that's by one narrow definition. The fact is that even your senior tech worker making ~200k a year is barely a blip on the radar compared to how much executives and investors are stealing. If you want to fall for their rhetoric and wonder why things are getting worse for everyone then you shouldn't be surprised. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/middle-class-income-in-major-us-cities.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/middle-class-income-in-major...
  - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
    The median income in the US is $41k for all workers and $56k for full-time, year-round workers. $71k is the average household income. https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2021/demo/p60-273/figure4.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizat... In your CNBC article everything is based on household income. Many SWEs would be classed as not middle class based on their own income let alone household income. The median SWE salary in the US is $110k: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/Computer-and-Information-Technology/Software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/Computer-and-Information-Technology/.... If you take increased salary due to location and partner salary into account, the majority of SWEs are easily upper middle class. > In places like San Francisco where the cost of living is significantly higher, you would need to be earning ~230k a year to be in the upper middle class A solo entry level FAANG engineer basically qualifies for upper middle class. Add a partner and you're definitely upper middle class. > And even with FAANG the salary between an engineer at Amazon and one at Google is going to vastly differ, especially depending on what part of Amazon you're working at What are you talking about with "especially depending on what part of Amazon you're working at"? As far as I've seen Retail vs AWS doesn't have different comp. Google and Amazon also have pretty similar comp: https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Amazon&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Amazon&track=Software.... Their comp bands likely have a lot of overlap. Differences are more likely to be based on negotiation than working for Google vs Amazon.

VirusNewbie 4y ago

What are you talking about? Maybe for entry level with only a couple years they couldn’t own a home but come on? You think there are mid/senior level people with 5+ years working there who cannot afford a home??

photonbeam 4y ago
Yes there are, as the homes they want to buy are near work and those are really expensive

jghn 4y ago

The median *household* income in the US is around 80K. That's well below the *starting* income for a FAANG engineer.

triceratops 4y ago
That's the point GP is making. FAANG salaries aren't too high, median salaries are too low.
- fzeroracer 4y ago
  Yes, thank you. That's the exact point I've been getting at. Median salaries for workers in the US is far too low and should be brought up, rather than fighting to bring FAANG engineers lower which is exactly what businesses want.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >Median salaries for workers in the US is far too low and should be brought up But how do we do this?
  - jghn 4y ago
    I agree with this, but that's a separate argument. I suppose if one viewed "middle class" as a state of being and not as in middle/median, then sure.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
satvikpendem 4y ago
I think the point they're making is that salaries should be higher, given the discrepancy between productivity and pay that started appearing in the 70s [0]. [0] https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

fbdab103 4y ago

Uhhhh, if I go to levels right now, the Google Entry Level L3 total comp is $190k[0]. The US median household income in 2021 was ~$71k [1]. Where do you think the middle class line lands? [0] : https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-engineer https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-en... [1] : https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2022/demo/p60-276.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2022/demo/p60-27...

fzeroracer 4y ago
Above what even your average senior engineer is making. I'm not a FAANG worker; I make well below what they make. I simply do not ascribe to the crab-in-a-pot mentality that a lot of posters here seem to have in attempt to further divide what is ultimately a large range of middle class workers. Total compensation also only matters depending on the total CoL because a lot of those companies require you to live in areas with incredibly high rent, especially with the attempt to remove remote work. And even with FAANG the salary between an engineer at Amazon and one at Google is going to vastly differ, especially depending on what part of Amazon you're working at. For reference, Pew Research defines middle class as 1.66 - 2x the median salary in America. That would make most tech workers middle class, and FAANG engineers in the lower upper class. In places like San Francisco where the cost of living is significantly higher, you would need to be earning ~230k a year to be in the upper middle class [1]. Though that's by one narrow definition. The fact is that even your senior tech worker making ~200k a year is barely a blip on the radar compared to how much executives and investors are stealing. If you want to fall for their rhetoric and wonder why things are getting worse for everyone then you shouldn't be surprised. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/middle-class-income-in-major-us-cities.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/middle-class-income-in-major...
- ZephyrBlu 4y ago
  The median income in the US is $41k for all workers and $56k for full-time, year-round workers. $71k is the average household income. https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2021/demo/p60-273/figure4.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizat... In your CNBC article everything is based on household income. Many SWEs would be classed as not middle class based on their own income let alone household income. The median SWE salary in the US is $110k: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/Computer-and-Information-Technology/Software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/Computer-and-Information-Technology/.... If you take increased salary due to location and partner salary into account, the majority of SWEs are easily upper middle class. > In places like San Francisco where the cost of living is significantly higher, you would need to be earning ~230k a year to be in the upper middle class A solo entry level FAANG engineer basically qualifies for upper middle class. Add a partner and you're definitely upper middle class. > And even with FAANG the salary between an engineer at Amazon and one at Google is going to vastly differ, especially depending on what part of Amazon you're working at What are you talking about with "especially depending on what part of Amazon you're working at"? As far as I've seen Retail vs AWS doesn't have different comp. Google and Amazon also have pretty similar comp: https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Amazon&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Amazon&track=Software.... Their comp bands likely have a lot of overlap. Differences are more likely to be based on negotiation than working for Google vs Amazon.