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The repeating theme of crypto fans postulating "free" cashflow without government involvment is the road to salvation is annoying me so much. Cashflow without

The repeating theme of crypto fans postulating "free" cashflow without government involvment is the road to salvation is annoying me so much. Cashflow without government involvement is the absolute opposite of democratic freedom. Take literally any autocratic government ripe with corruption, look at Russia, China et al. Look at any large criminal organization which tries to avoid democratically elected governmental regulation of their cashflows. Instead of being free, in a world with no oversight of how money is exchanged, 99.9% of people will wake up in modern servitude to a tiny rich oligarchy which owns all the assets and brutally opresses their slaves. How this is not apparent to anyone is beyond me. We already found a solution to the problem of being treated unfairly by a government: the judicial branch. Think your money is frozen unfairly? Then sue. Easy as that.

anigbrowl 4y ago
They know it. When you dig down under the surface a lot of freedom evangelists favor religious warlordism or monarchy.
- landoftheice 4y ago
  [dead]
ipaddr 4y ago
Going the other direction where government controls all aspects of society is what the USSR and China decided was the best system. When the USSR broke up they gave all citizens ownership of previously held state enterprises which was worthless to them and those shares were sold ended up in few players hands. Crypto is the opposite where miners hold as much power as developers to create a balance. You can't sue in Canada when the government introduces wartime measures. Like Canada was under attack
- thenaturalist 4y ago
  I am not going into the other direction though. I am not in any way saying the USSR or Chinese political system is or was desirable. I explicitly gave the judicial branch as implemented in Western democratic societies as an example. I'm no expert in Canadian politics, but to me it seems reasonable to assume that, just like in any other Western democratic society, the gov introducing wartime measures isn't what's day to day due process 99.9% of the time. So you arguing based on extreme examples, which are at least partially out of context isn't really adding anything substantial to the discussion at hand I think. How do miners hold as much power as big ass capitalists in a crypto world?? Look at the numbers for the distribution of crypto whales: https://insights.glassnode.com/bitcoin-supply-distribution-revisited/ https://insights.glassnode.com/bitcoin-supply-distribution-r... Look at basic economic theory: Those who hold access to the means of production will accrue capital steadily over time. Always has been that way, always will be. Whether you mine a currency and then spend, or a government mints a currency, distributes it to you and then you spend has no effect on the matter.
- everfree 4y ago
  > miners hold as much power as developers to create a balance I have no horse in this conversation about government, but I think it's important to note that neither developers nor miners hold any direct power in creating a balance on a properly decentralized blockchain. Their only power is insofar as they are able to convince users to collectively change their node software to introduce code that creates such a balance. A chain's developers are generally in a much better position to convince users of that than its miners (or stakers) are.
koonsolo 4y ago
> Cashflow without government involvement is the absolute opposite of democratic freedom. “Freedom Is Slavery” - 1984
danaris 4y ago
> How this is not apparent to anyone is beyond me. It's exactly the same problem as: Day 1: "I'm glad I finally got medicine for my chronic condition." Day 2: "Wow, this medicine is making me feel so much better!" Day 3: "I feel great! I don't need this medicine anymore!" Day 4: "Man, why do I feel so terrible??"

anigbrowl 4y ago

They know it. When you dig down under the surface a lot of freedom evangelists favor religious warlordism or monarchy.

landoftheice 4y ago
[dead]

ipaddr 4y ago

Going the other direction where government controls all aspects of society is what the USSR and China decided was the best system. When the USSR broke up they gave all citizens ownership of previously held state enterprises which was worthless to them and those shares were sold ended up in few players hands. Crypto is the opposite where miners hold as much power as developers to create a balance. You can't sue in Canada when the government introduces wartime measures. Like Canada was under attack

thenaturalist 4y ago
I am not going into the other direction though. I am not in any way saying the USSR or Chinese political system is or was desirable. I explicitly gave the judicial branch as implemented in Western democratic societies as an example. I'm no expert in Canadian politics, but to me it seems reasonable to assume that, just like in any other Western democratic society, the gov introducing wartime measures isn't what's day to day due process 99.9% of the time. So you arguing based on extreme examples, which are at least partially out of context isn't really adding anything substantial to the discussion at hand I think. How do miners hold as much power as big ass capitalists in a crypto world?? Look at the numbers for the distribution of crypto whales: https://insights.glassnode.com/bitcoin-supply-distribution-revisited/ https://insights.glassnode.com/bitcoin-supply-distribution-r... Look at basic economic theory: Those who hold access to the means of production will accrue capital steadily over time. Always has been that way, always will be. Whether you mine a currency and then spend, or a government mints a currency, distributes it to you and then you spend has no effect on the matter.
everfree 4y ago
> miners hold as much power as developers to create a balance I have no horse in this conversation about government, but I think it's important to note that neither developers nor miners hold any direct power in creating a balance on a properly decentralized blockchain. Their only power is insofar as they are able to convince users to collectively change their node software to introduce code that creates such a balance. A chain's developers are generally in a much better position to convince users of that than its miners (or stakers) are.

koonsolo 4y ago

> Cashflow without government involvement is the absolute opposite of democratic freedom. “Freedom Is Slavery” - 1984

danaris 4y ago

> How this is not apparent to anyone is beyond me. It's exactly the same problem as: Day 1: "I'm glad I finally got medicine for my chronic condition." Day 2: "Wow, this medicine is making me feel so much better!" Day 3: "I feel great! I don't need this medicine anymore!" Day 4: "Man, why do I feel so terrible??"