4 ms·
I mostly agree, but if it's a technology I've never worked with and I'm asked to do something I've never done before, I'm not an expert. That doesn't stop them
by Scarblac 4y ago
I mostly agree, but if it's a technology I've never worked with and I'm asked to do something I've never done before, I'm not an expert. That doesn't stop them asking for estimates, which turn into deadlines.
- bluedino 4y agoThat's a special case then.
- re-thc 4y agoYou mean we're all a special case :)
- magicalhippo 4y agoI just say that to my boss: "this would involve using a library/tool I've not yet used, so I cannot give a good estimate until I've spent some time digging into it. Right now I don't know if it will be easy or very difficult." If he really needs an estimate he'll tell me to start digging into it right away, and I'll let him know after a bit of time how it's going. If there are still large uncertainties and my boss still wants this completed by some specific date, we might try to explore alternative solutions.
- Scarblac 4y agoYes it boils down to, if the person asking for estimates understands the problems with them, it's safe to try. With bad managers it's better not to give them as they will be abused. In the above case, I didn't get that time I would need, they wanted the estimate to include that time I would need to dig into it. But that's above my estimation powers. I didn't even know if what they asked was possible at all. They went and asked someone else who did guess some number of weeks, but the work never got priority so we still don't know.
- magicalhippo 4y ago> they wanted the estimate to include that time I would need to dig into it Yeah that ain't gonna fly with me.
- mewpmewp2 4y agoDid you say what you are saying here? Did you say that 1) Without knowing further best case is it takes N time, worst case M time, and if there are certain obstacles it could be completely unfeasible. 2) To get more accurate time and to understand whether it's feasible I would need O time to figure that out first, and I can give you the more accurate estimate then.
- IIsi50MHz 4y agoThis seems unexpectedly optimistic, to me. I'd think: best case = it's already done; worst case = it's impossible, but we don't know that until we've spent too much time and money on it; the "certain obstacles" are almost always uncertain or completely unknown; and the "O time to figure out [how much time it will take] is also unknowable until the "figuring" is already complete. Now, if this were manufacturing with well-known processes, then I feel I could use your formula.
- Scarblac 4y agoYes, of course. To the bad managers it sounds like just yet another excuse, and they ask other devs until they find one who gives a number.
- asielen 4y agoAs a manager that's all I ask. Give me an estimate of the knowns and an estimate on how's long you need to figure out what is realistic from the unknowns. Just let me know what your next move is. The problem is when we assume everything is a known. I try not to do that and I try to set that expectation with my manager. If everything had an easy answer we wouldn't need highly paid problem solvers.
- lutorm 4y agoestimates, which turn into deadlines Well, that's the problem right there. An estimate is not a promise. It should not be treated as such.