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> The network is owned by the participants and no shareholder class to extract rents. Dumb question. But if the network is owned by the participants, then why

by itake 4y ago

> The network is owned by the participants and no shareholder class to extract rents. Dumb question. But if the network is owned by the participants, then why do all the networks have a centralized authority managing them? The participants rarely have autonomy.

EGreg 4y ago
I mean, who owns Uniswap for instance? What can they do — start collegting the extra 0.3% fee? That’s about it. The people own the network, and they all rely on the same code. Web3 protocols at their best are like that. By contrast, FTX and Binance are “crypto-adjacent”, they aren’t decentralized or onchain at all.
- itake 4y ago
  Uniswap labs owns the GitHub repo, domain name, and discord servers. If their domain, discord, etc disappears, the project would struggle because their smart contracts are difficult to use without the web apps and it would damage the trust in the project. Uniswap owners can shut down their website. They can introduce a 100% fee. They can deactivate their contracts. Yes, people can still use their smart contracts in 5 years, but the adoption of those contracts will quickly decline without uniswap labs.
  - EGreg 4y ago
    So what you're saying is that we need a front-end layer with content-addressable hashes? Like Beaker Browser with Dat, or like IPFS gateways? And then we have a truly decentralized ecosystem in which billions of dollars are invested and trading. And no one owns it! They can't introduce a 100% fee or deactivate their contracts. I read the code. It is impossible.
    - itake 4y ago
      Yes. I said in my first comment that you can use other tools to access smart contracts. My point is, all of these tools have central leadership and centralized auxiliary services (DNS, discord, etc). Without the centralized leadership or centralized services, these protocols can’t function.
      - EGreg 4y ago
        DHTs arent centralized. As I said there needs fo be a front end that is based on DHT. Freenet. Beaker Browser. IPFS. Why not?
      - miracle2k 4y ago
        While its worth considering the power structures behind a project, and what would happen for example if Uniswap Labs decides to put their weight behind a particular fork, or proposes a new version - the protocols can and d function without centralized leadership. Even today, every wallet's swap feature is already an aggregator across multiple DEXes - neither theU Uniswap website nor their discord nor their leadership team are required for the protocol to continue to function. Reminder: TornadoCash is still up and running and actively used.

by itake 4y ago

EGreg 4y ago

I mean, who owns Uniswap for instance? What can they do — start collegting the extra 0.3% fee? That’s about it. The people own the network, and they all rely on the same code. Web3 protocols at their best are like that. By contrast, FTX and Binance are “crypto-adjacent”, they aren’t decentralized or onchain at all.

itake 4y ago
Uniswap labs owns the GitHub repo, domain name, and discord servers. If their domain, discord, etc disappears, the project would struggle because their smart contracts are difficult to use without the web apps and it would damage the trust in the project. Uniswap owners can shut down their website. They can introduce a 100% fee. They can deactivate their contracts. Yes, people can still use their smart contracts in 5 years, but the adoption of those contracts will quickly decline without uniswap labs.
- EGreg 4y ago
  So what you're saying is that we need a front-end layer with content-addressable hashes? Like Beaker Browser with Dat, or like IPFS gateways? And then we have a truly decentralized ecosystem in which billions of dollars are invested and trading. And no one owns it! They can't introduce a 100% fee or deactivate their contracts. I read the code. It is impossible.
  - itake 4y ago
    Yes. I said in my first comment that you can use other tools to access smart contracts. My point is, all of these tools have central leadership and centralized auxiliary services (DNS, discord, etc). Without the centralized leadership or centralized services, these protocols can’t function.
    - EGreg 4y ago
      DHTs arent centralized. As I said there needs fo be a front end that is based on DHT. Freenet. Beaker Browser. IPFS. Why not?
    - miracle2k 4y ago
      While its worth considering the power structures behind a project, and what would happen for example if Uniswap Labs decides to put their weight behind a particular fork, or proposes a new version - the protocols can and d function without centralized leadership. Even today, every wallet's swap feature is already an aggregator across multiple DEXes - neither theU Uniswap website nor their discord nor their leadership team are required for the protocol to continue to function. Reminder: TornadoCash is still up and running and actively used.