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Super interesting, particularly the link through to the blog with all the research into how Notes works. A particularly interesting thing that I don't see ment

Super interesting, particularly the link through to the blog with all the research into how Notes works. A particularly interesting thing that I don't see mentioned anywhere is that Apple Notes uses CRDTs (conflict free replicated data types) to enable both shared notes and multiple concurrent edits. With the CRDTs resolving the conflicts. It looks like the info on the page may be a good place to start looking to how that works: https://www.ciofecaforensics.com/2020/10/20/apple-notes-cloudkit-data/ https://www.ciofecaforensics.com/2020/10/20/apple-notes-clou...

eddyg 4y ago
CRDTs are definitely an “unsung hero” of Apple Notes… and a big reason why it is one Apple’s best “built-in” apps as of late.
- starbugs 4y ago
  If they could now implement table resizing and tables that do not render with graphical errors, that would be so nice.
- howinteresting 4y ago
  A notes app that only works with one 2-trillion-dollar company's hardware and does not have builtin functionality to export notes (e.g. a menu option to do so) cannot reasonably be described as good. One's expectations have to be through the floor for that to be an honest appraisal. Compare it to Obsidian, which just stores data in a bunch of markdown files on disk.
  - Kerrick 4y ago
    I can export to Text and/or PDF on my iPhone from the Notes app.
    - howinteresting 4y ago
      We're commenting on the website for a project called "Apple Notes Liberator". Obsidian does not need a "liberator".
      - macintux 4y ago
        You're moving the goalposts. Your first comment: > and does not have builtin functionality to export notes (e.g. a menu option to do so) That's incorrect: you can export to PDF. Certainly not as handy as Markdown, but it's there. Additionally, Apple offers AppleScript as a way to do even more. No, this isn't an open source piece of software. If that's your sole criteria for "good" then you're right, it's bad.
        eviks 4y ago
        No goal posts move when the original issue is not resolved with the proposed solution Like, without any menu you can export your notes to a screenshot, but you wouldn't accept it as an export option, would you? Similarly, PDF is an awful format for notes, so the fact that it exists doesn't solve the issue that you can't export your notes (which at a minimum you need to be able to do in batches, not individual notes)
        gcr 4y ago
        Most users interpret "Export" as an operation that lossily finalizes a project from its native representation to a common third-party format. "Export" is one-way, "Save As" is bidirectional. - Audacity "Saves" audio projects to its native .aup, but can "Export" them to .mp3 or .wav - Photoshop "Saves" .psd files, but "Exports" them to .jpeg - Gimp "Saves" an .xcf, but "Exports" to .png - Apple Notes "Saves" notes to its own sqlite database, but "Exports" to txt or pdf via a menu item This technically satisfies your comment above, which is why we speak of moved goalposts. It would be great if apple notes could convert your note library to ENEX or a .zip file of HTML items.
        eviks 4y ago
        This is not a project, and your examples are just the same biased multimedia project example, which is very much not rich text Export/import is about comm/direction, it does not (technically, just as you like it) imply loss. Also, technically we're discussing a comment from a specific person here, not from "most users". (Joplin also uses sqlite database for storage, that's another very interesting internal detail) So even technically you're wrong, but more importantly, you're missing the forest for the technicality tree
    - eviks 4y ago
      That doesn't count since text is destructive export is pdf is just as bad (also, batch export?)
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    I don't actually care about getting some data dump out of Notes. I use it as a way to quickly store temporary information. Any note older than a month is most likely useless. The most important feature is that it effortlessly syncs between my phone, work laptop, and home laptop. And that it does. Unlike a bunch of markdown files on disk where you have to create some janky syncing setup yourself which has no conflict resolution system.
    - howinteresting 4y ago
      Obsidian Sync works great.
      - veidr 4y ago
        I agree, but at USD $120/year it is expensive. (It's worth it to me, but I'd still prefer something equally easy-to-use, standards-based, but self-hosted with rounds-to-zero running costs.)
user_7832 4y ago
Thank you for posting about CRDTs! I remembered Apple Notes used some type of versioning that was good and I’d wanted to use in my own app design but I had forgotten the name.

eddyg 4y ago

CRDTs are definitely an “unsung hero” of Apple Notes… and a big reason why it is one Apple’s best “built-in” apps as of late.

starbugs 4y ago
If they could now implement table resizing and tables that do not render with graphical errors, that would be so nice.
howinteresting 4y ago
A notes app that only works with one 2-trillion-dollar company's hardware and does not have builtin functionality to export notes (e.g. a menu option to do so) cannot reasonably be described as good. One's expectations have to be through the floor for that to be an honest appraisal. Compare it to Obsidian, which just stores data in a bunch of markdown files on disk.
- Kerrick 4y ago
  I can export to Text and/or PDF on my iPhone from the Notes app.
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    We're commenting on the website for a project called "Apple Notes Liberator". Obsidian does not need a "liberator".
    - macintux 4y ago
      You're moving the goalposts. Your first comment: > and does not have builtin functionality to export notes (e.g. a menu option to do so) That's incorrect: you can export to PDF. Certainly not as handy as Markdown, but it's there. Additionally, Apple offers AppleScript as a way to do even more. No, this isn't an open source piece of software. If that's your sole criteria for "good" then you're right, it's bad.
      - eviks 4y ago
        No goal posts move when the original issue is not resolved with the proposed solution Like, without any menu you can export your notes to a screenshot, but you wouldn't accept it as an export option, would you? Similarly, PDF is an awful format for notes, so the fact that it exists doesn't solve the issue that you can't export your notes (which at a minimum you need to be able to do in batches, not individual notes)
        gcr 4y ago
        Most users interpret "Export" as an operation that lossily finalizes a project from its native representation to a common third-party format. "Export" is one-way, "Save As" is bidirectional. - Audacity "Saves" audio projects to its native .aup, but can "Export" them to .mp3 or .wav - Photoshop "Saves" .psd files, but "Exports" them to .jpeg - Gimp "Saves" an .xcf, but "Exports" to .png - Apple Notes "Saves" notes to its own sqlite database, but "Exports" to txt or pdf via a menu item This technically satisfies your comment above, which is why we speak of moved goalposts. It would be great if apple notes could convert your note library to ENEX or a .zip file of HTML items.
        eviks 4y ago
        This is not a project, and your examples are just the same biased multimedia project example, which is very much not rich text Export/import is about comm/direction, it does not (technically, just as you like it) imply loss. Also, technically we're discussing a comment from a specific person here, not from "most users". (Joplin also uses sqlite database for storage, that's another very interesting internal detail) So even technically you're wrong, but more importantly, you're missing the forest for the technicality tree
  - eviks 4y ago
    That doesn't count since text is destructive export is pdf is just as bad (also, batch export?)
- Gigachad 4y ago
  I don't actually care about getting some data dump out of Notes. I use it as a way to quickly store temporary information. Any note older than a month is most likely useless. The most important feature is that it effortlessly syncs between my phone, work laptop, and home laptop. And that it does. Unlike a bunch of markdown files on disk where you have to create some janky syncing setup yourself which has no conflict resolution system.
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    Obsidian Sync works great.
    - veidr 4y ago
      I agree, but at USD $120/year it is expensive. (It's worth it to me, but I'd still prefer something equally easy-to-use, standards-based, but self-hosted with rounds-to-zero running costs.)

user_7832 4y ago

Thank you for posting about CRDTs! I remembered Apple Notes used some type of versioning that was good and I’d wanted to use in my own app design but I had forgotten the name.