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These generalizations ignore the specific - Utah has long been an outlier on things like teen suicide rates (about #10), antidepressant use (#1) [1], and before

by dgacmu 4y ago

These generalizations ignore the specific - Utah has long been an outlier on things like teen suicide rates (about #10), antidepressant use (#1) [1], and before that valium. It has a very specific set of cultural features that are not necessarily the same as the broader studies you note. (I'm from Utah; three of my friends killed themselves as a teenager, and all three had aspects of what the GP was talking about. It's a culture that blames people's mental difficulties on themselves, instead of encouraging getting help) [1] https://www.brainerddispatch.com/community/study-finds-utah-leads-nation-in-antidepressant-use-role-of-women-cited https://www.brainerddispatch.com/community/study-finds-utah-...

rayiner 4y ago
Utah isn’t an outliers: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/.... Sparsely populated rural areas tend to have high suicide rates. Vermont and Oregon are at the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of theism and culture, but have similarly high suicide rates. New Hampshire and Maine are also higher than Mississippi and Alabama. Reducing theism (mandatory social interaction and social support) may well increases suicide rates in these places.
- dgacmu 4y ago
  Salt lake city is not a sparsely populated rural area, and its suicide rate is about the same as the state's overall rate (24 vs 20.8). Could be some altitude effects as a sibling comment observed, though SLC at only 4200 ft isn't in the Denver range. But Utah also had a large rise in teen suicide over times that align also with the social media hypothesis: https://utah-health.shorthandstories.com/state-of-suffering/index.html https://utah-health.shorthandstories.com/state-of-suffering/... (It went from already high to awful)
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Regardless, pointing to Utah” specific “cultural features” doesn’t make much sense. Neighboring Colorado has an even higher suicide rate, and is at the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of culture compared to Utah.
    - dgacmu 4y ago
      This is a logical fallacy - "Colorado is not X, therefore Utah is not either". In your earlier comment, you noted religion's correlation with happiness, but allow me to quote from a review article about religion and suicide specifically [1]: > Whether religious affiliation protects against suicide attempts may depend on the culture-specific implications of affiliating with a particular religion, [...] > The relationship between religion and suicide is complicated because both religion and suicide are complex constructs You're making the mistake of conflating the individual's own degree of religious belief (which is _possibly_ mildly protective against suicide) with the _cultural context_ and its effect on people of varying religious belief and identity. Colorado is not Utah. Utah is, as the saying almost goes, a bit "peculiar", and it's tricky. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7310534/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7310534/
      - rayiner 4y ago
        Just look at the map I linked. There is a clear geographic pattern, and Utah isn’t an outlier within that pattern. Yes, it’s theoretically possible that religiosity is causing suicides in Utah and something else is causing suicides in Colorado (and Oregon and Vermont), and for some reason it’s not causing suicides in Mississippi and Alabama.
seizethegdgap 4y ago
It's possible Utah's high teen suicide and antidepressant use rates have something to do with altitude. https://theconversation.com/the-curious-relationship-between-altitude-and-suicide-85716 https://theconversation.com/the-curious-relationship-between...

by dgacmu 4y ago

rayiner 4y ago

Utah isn’t an outliers: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/.... Sparsely populated rural areas tend to have high suicide rates. Vermont and Oregon are at the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of theism and culture, but have similarly high suicide rates. New Hampshire and Maine are also higher than Mississippi and Alabama. Reducing theism (mandatory social interaction and social support) may well increases suicide rates in these places.

dgacmu 4y ago
Salt lake city is not a sparsely populated rural area, and its suicide rate is about the same as the state's overall rate (24 vs 20.8). Could be some altitude effects as a sibling comment observed, though SLC at only 4200 ft isn't in the Denver range. But Utah also had a large rise in teen suicide over times that align also with the social media hypothesis: https://utah-health.shorthandstories.com/state-of-suffering/index.html https://utah-health.shorthandstories.com/state-of-suffering/... (It went from already high to awful)
- rayiner 4y ago
  Regardless, pointing to Utah” specific “cultural features” doesn’t make much sense. Neighboring Colorado has an even higher suicide rate, and is at the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of culture compared to Utah.
  - dgacmu 4y ago
    This is a logical fallacy - "Colorado is not X, therefore Utah is not either". In your earlier comment, you noted religion's correlation with happiness, but allow me to quote from a review article about religion and suicide specifically [1]: > Whether religious affiliation protects against suicide attempts may depend on the culture-specific implications of affiliating with a particular religion, [...] > The relationship between religion and suicide is complicated because both religion and suicide are complex constructs You're making the mistake of conflating the individual's own degree of religious belief (which is _possibly_ mildly protective against suicide) with the _cultural context_ and its effect on people of varying religious belief and identity. Colorado is not Utah. Utah is, as the saying almost goes, a bit "peculiar", and it's tricky. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7310534/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7310534/
    - rayiner 4y ago
      Just look at the map I linked. There is a clear geographic pattern, and Utah isn’t an outlier within that pattern. Yes, it’s theoretically possible that religiosity is causing suicides in Utah and something else is causing suicides in Colorado (and Oregon and Vermont), and for some reason it’s not causing suicides in Mississippi and Alabama.

seizethegdgap 4y ago

It's possible Utah's high teen suicide and antidepressant use rates have something to do with altitude. https://theconversation.com/the-curious-relationship-between-altitude-and-suicide-85716 https://theconversation.com/the-curious-relationship-between...