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Is that what happened ? According to whatever it says there's only been about 1000 cases and most recover. You remind me of current conspiracy theorists who now

Is that what happened ? According to whatever it says there's only been about 1000 cases and most recover. You remind me of current conspiracy theorists who now attribute any death via a health condition to the vaccine. Show me evidence they ignored reasonable warnings or didn't move fast enough?

blueyoda 4y ago
If you're comfortable with that, that is fine, I respect everyone's decisions for their own health. But what about those who do not recover? No one has the right to coerce another person to receive an irreversible medical treatment. Masks can be taken off - nothing against them personally. But can one "un"-vaccinate themselves? And why are people forced to vaccinate when natural immunity has been proven to be at least, if not more effective, than vaccination (from a peer-reviewed study published in the Lancet)? The argument is not whether the vaccine is good or bad. It's about respecting people's right to a choice. Japan did not mandate the COVID vaccine and actively discouraged such an approach. Would you claim they are anti-science? It's also important to consider what the former President of Australia's Medical Association has stated regarding the COVID jab: "the true rate of adverse events is far higher than acknowledged due to underreporting and “threats” from medical regulators"
- themitigating 4y ago
  I don't respect people's decisions if it may affect others. The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they were vaccinated is one. Health care costs are amortized over the population through insurance
  - VagueMag 4y ago
    > The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they were vaccinated is one. Health care costs are amortized over the population through insurance This is a recipe for the worst, most intrusive kind of tyranny in the name of "biosecurity," but that's probably a feature and not a bug to the sort of person who is still advocating for COVID vaccine mandates at this late date. There are vast demographics of healthy young people at infinitesimal risk from COVID and much higher risk from the shots, for whom taking them actually raised their risk of being hospitalized. But the difference between you and me is, if I found out people required more medical care because of their unwise and ill-considered health choices, the last thing on earth that would occur to me would be to punish them with job losses, higher insurance premiums, and the like.
  - blueyoda 4y ago
    78% of individuals hospitalized for COVID were obese/overweight. In other words, people who eat too much were primarily responsible for overwhelming our health care system. What are your thoughts on them?
    - themitigating 4y ago
      - Gaining weight takes time and is the result of a continuous large number of bad decisions over a long period of time. Not getting vaccinated is a single decision - Losing weight requires a great deal of effort over a long period of time. Getting vaccinated is quick and easy - Weight gain can have factors that are difficult to control like mental illness, self control issues, and other things related to your emotions. I'm sure you'll agree that the vast majority of people who are overweight don't want to be overweight. Those who didn't get vaccinated wanted to not be vaccinated While you can argue anyone can lose weight, which I would agree with you, the amount of effort is extreme, otherwise I'm sure no one would be overweight. Therefore a person who is overweight has a heart attack deserves sympathy whereas a person who didn't get vaccinated* but ends up in the hospital because of Covid doesn't. * Assuming they could have gotten vaccinated, meaning no health issues or real risks
      - blueyoda 4y ago
        > Therefore a person who is overweight has a heart attack deserves sympathy whereas a person who didn't get vaccinated* but ends up in the hospital because of Covid doesn't. A person who is obese willingly chose to gorge on lots of food. (Of course, there are a minority of individuals who have conditions like thyroid issues). A person who declined vaccination was most likely afraid of the side effects, which are rare but possible. > Weight gain can have factors that are difficult to control like mental illness, self control issues Mental illness? So a schizophrenic person magically gets obese? Self-control issues? People who can't put the cookie down? And a young athlete has to undergo a procedure with risk because the obese person can't say no to Taco Bell? These people were responsible for 78% of hospitalizations. Yet the media had basically no campaign to encourage them to lose weight. Note that they have had a significant impact on our health care system before COVID even began. By your logic: "I can't stop overeating" => "It's not your fault" "I'm concerned about myocarditis" => "You're selfish!" Even though I find their decision to be extremely selfish, I still hold sympathy for them. Only a sadist would find joy in seeing others suffer. Imagine if doctors laughed at their patients for having a preventable illness. Likewise, I know there are people who refused to get vaccination for poor reasons - reasons that appear to be due to mental illness (e.g. schizophrenics who actually believe there are microchips in the vaccines). > the amount of effort is extreme And the amount of effort to become obese is extreme. No one becomes obese after one cookie. > Those who didn't get vaccinated wanted to not be vaccinated Did the obese make the responsible decision (to lose weight) to stop overwhelming our healthcare system?

blueyoda 4y ago

If you're comfortable with that, that is fine, I respect everyone's decisions for their own health. But what about those who do not recover? No one has the right to coerce another person to receive an irreversible medical treatment. Masks can be taken off - nothing against them personally. But can one "un"-vaccinate themselves? And why are people forced to vaccinate when natural immunity has been proven to be at least, if not more effective, than vaccination (from a peer-reviewed study published in the Lancet)? The argument is not whether the vaccine is good or bad. It's about respecting people's right to a choice. Japan did not mandate the COVID vaccine and actively discouraged such an approach. Would you claim they are anti-science? It's also important to consider what the former President of Australia's Medical Association has stated regarding the COVID jab: "the true rate of adverse events is far higher than acknowledged due to underreporting and “threats” from medical regulators"

themitigating 4y ago
I don't respect people's decisions if it may affect others. The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they were vaccinated is one. Health care costs are amortized over the population through insurance
- VagueMag 4y ago
  > The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they were vaccinated is one. Health care costs are amortized over the population through insurance This is a recipe for the worst, most intrusive kind of tyranny in the name of "biosecurity," but that's probably a feature and not a bug to the sort of person who is still advocating for COVID vaccine mandates at this late date. There are vast demographics of healthy young people at infinitesimal risk from COVID and much higher risk from the shots, for whom taking them actually raised their risk of being hospitalized. But the difference between you and me is, if I found out people required more medical care because of their unwise and ill-considered health choices, the last thing on earth that would occur to me would be to punish them with job losses, higher insurance premiums, and the like.
- blueyoda 4y ago
  78% of individuals hospitalized for COVID were obese/overweight. In other words, people who eat too much were primarily responsible for overwhelming our health care system. What are your thoughts on them?
  - themitigating 4y ago
    - Gaining weight takes time and is the result of a continuous large number of bad decisions over a long period of time. Not getting vaccinated is a single decision - Losing weight requires a great deal of effort over a long period of time. Getting vaccinated is quick and easy - Weight gain can have factors that are difficult to control like mental illness, self control issues, and other things related to your emotions. I'm sure you'll agree that the vast majority of people who are overweight don't want to be overweight. Those who didn't get vaccinated wanted to not be vaccinated While you can argue anyone can lose weight, which I would agree with you, the amount of effort is extreme, otherwise I'm sure no one would be overweight. Therefore a person who is overweight has a heart attack deserves sympathy whereas a person who didn't get vaccinated* but ends up in the hospital because of Covid doesn't. * Assuming they could have gotten vaccinated, meaning no health issues or real risks
    - blueyoda 4y ago
      > Therefore a person who is overweight has a heart attack deserves sympathy whereas a person who didn't get vaccinated* but ends up in the hospital because of Covid doesn't. A person who is obese willingly chose to gorge on lots of food. (Of course, there are a minority of individuals who have conditions like thyroid issues). A person who declined vaccination was most likely afraid of the side effects, which are rare but possible. > Weight gain can have factors that are difficult to control like mental illness, self control issues Mental illness? So a schizophrenic person magically gets obese? Self-control issues? People who can't put the cookie down? And a young athlete has to undergo a procedure with risk because the obese person can't say no to Taco Bell? These people were responsible for 78% of hospitalizations. Yet the media had basically no campaign to encourage them to lose weight. Note that they have had a significant impact on our health care system before COVID even began. By your logic: "I can't stop overeating" => "It's not your fault" "I'm concerned about myocarditis" => "You're selfish!" Even though I find their decision to be extremely selfish, I still hold sympathy for them. Only a sadist would find joy in seeing others suffer. Imagine if doctors laughed at their patients for having a preventable illness. Likewise, I know there are people who refused to get vaccination for poor reasons - reasons that appear to be due to mental illness (e.g. schizophrenics who actually believe there are microchips in the vaccines). > the amount of effort is extreme And the amount of effort to become obese is extreme. No one becomes obese after one cookie. > Those who didn't get vaccinated wanted to not be vaccinated Did the obese make the responsible decision (to lose weight) to stop overwhelming our healthcare system?